One thing that concerns me about Trump, Robert, is the hit we take in prestige with the rest of the world when someone like Trump has so much support to become our leader. What is a single positive point in his favor? I can think of none at all. Every conservative pundit I've read over here deplores him, too, so there is that for comfort. He has resurrected Nixon's "silent majority" to label his base, but his true base is the unthinking public.

Hillary Clinton, pulling train cars of baggage, is probably the best of the candidates, but it's not saying a lot. If she's elected, it will be an exhausting 4 or 8 years for the country, with the other party trying to rip her apart from day one--there will be no honeymoon.

Trump, as president, I fear would be a dangerous demagogue who would foment anti-Muslim fervor into a world conflict. And, yet, to his credit, Trump's entry into the U.S. presidential race has exposed the underbelly of the beast that is today's American politics, where it is becoming too obvious that the American people have been disenfranchised of their own government.

http://www.businessinsider.com/major-st ... chy-2014-4

I could never vote for Trump because he's too far from my ideal president (modeled after Thomas Jefferson). But on the other hand, his merely being in the race, which will probably guarantee Hillary as our next president, is shaking things up enough that I think some good will come out of it. The American people do need to loudly protest the status quo. They just need to find a better candidate to represent their interests.

I'd agree with you, geo, if we were talking about Bernie Sanders, even though I don't think his proposals are ones we want. But he does address the disenfranchisement you speak of. Donald Trump? He wants to make America great again, by doing what?--winning, winning against the Muslims, against the Mexicans. against the Chinese, and never offering a semblance of a plan for accomplishing any of it. He plays to anger and frustration, of course, but I don't see where he says to the voters, "I'm going to give you your country back." Again, that is Sanders' message. I wouldn't want America to be great again if it's Trump's kind of greatness that we'd get. I can't see a single redeeming feature in this man's rise to prominence.

Yes, I could have been talking about Bernie Sanders, who I actually like (as opposed to Trump). Sanders says he's not part of the establishment, but as was pointed out in a SNL skit, he's been a congressman for 16 years before being elected to the U.S. Senate in 2008. I do think he's genuinely concerned about our country, although I don't think I would vote for him either.

Trump has also made a big deal out of the fact that he's paying for all this with his own money and he's not beholden to special interests, something Bernie Sanders can't say and certainly Hillary can't say. My link points to a study that finds that the US can be called an oligarchy, meaning that most policies enacted by our government serve special interests over the American people. Certainly much of Trump's appeal is driven by overly simplistic platitudes like "let's make America great" and "build a wall" but there's also a sense that a number of Americans are tired of self-serving politicians and the influence of special interests. And that can be seen as a positive side to Trump's entry into politics. (And obviously Bernie's too) It's astonishing to see a mainstream candidate like Jeb Bush, blessed as it were by the GOP establishment, barely making a dent in this race. It actually shows that people still can make a difference and take back the power that has been wrested away by special interests, which has been Bernie Sanders' theme in his campaign.

Overall, I think both Sanders and Trump have opened the door for possible future candidates who are more motivated more to build our nation rather than serve the political establishment. The two parties will have to change to better serve the people or they will be disenfranchised from us.

I recently stumbled upon this tidbit about a political party, known as the "Know Nothing" Party, that came into brief existence in the 1850s. There are some startling parallels to Trump's nativism.

from Wikipedia

The Native American Party, renamed in 1855 as the American Party, and commonly known as the Know Nothing movement, was an American political party that operated on a national basis during the mid-1850s.

The movement arose in response to an influx of migrants, and promised to "purify" American politics by limiting or ending the influence of Irish Catholics and other immigrants, thus reflecting nativist and anti-Catholic sentiment. It was empowered by popular fears that the country was being overwhelmed by German and Irish Catholic immigrants, whom they saw as hostile to republican values, and as being controlled by the Pope in Rome. Mainly active from 1854 to 1856, the movement strove to curb immigration and naturalization, but met with little success.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Know_Nothing#Name

essentially the republican front runners are completely unacceptable.

that leaves literally anybody the democrats can drum up.

Donald Trump. This guy is an idiot. And a child.
A man who has always gotten his way by being louder and richer than the people he's around. You can't pack up and go home if you don't like who the moderator is for a debate. You can't refuse to talk to important world leaders because you don't know how to handle yourself. His last job was to be the biggest asshole in the room on national television.

He is a fool of the worst sort, and giving this man a job in the government is an even worse idea than giving one to Sarah Palin.

Palin at least was merely a flummoxed idiot who would not have known anything about anything. Trump is a malicious blowhard and a fascist.

Ted Cruz is a vacant, mouth breathing zealot who puts his belief in supernatural fairie tales ahead of the well being of his fellow human.

Both have made it clear that they intend to oppress and discriminate against people in this country based on their ethnicity, or religious belief. The fact that either of these men have made it this far through the ranks of the republicans is a blaring indictment of the entire zeitgeist of that party.

It is shameful. Moderate republicans have long since lost the reins on what was once a viable choice of political platform. They are no longer being represented. This party should have split when the tea baggers became prominent into two groups: Reasonable people who want to do something good for the country, but lean right. And raving lunatics.

It is astounding to me that they are letting the voice of their party be a Trump, or a Palin, or a Cruz.
Astounding.

So, no. This choice is not very hard.

Johnson for president.

"Until now I thought Trump supporters were a myth. The man's an idiot."

You live in your own little world then, and so can be totally discounted from serious talk.

So lets look at the players - Sanders is a Hollande, Clinton a Blair, Bush a Merkle. Or Sanders could be a Corbyn/Miliband, Clinton a Merkle/Cameron............. They are a disaster, a managed decline till someone emerges who wants their nation Great again and wins. (Trump)

Carter and his disastrous failed Iranian fiasco - Reagan and his manipulating the events so he could be strong (Iran-Contra) and then gets hit with the Beirut bombing (Iranian) and runs away like a complete wimp and USA is a global laughing stock. His managing of the Russia/Afghanistan leads to this messed up world - handing all control of it to the Pakistan ISI and Saudi Whhabists, and USA just paying the bills wile they use the money to Islamify the reigon.

Meanwhile in all this crap Bush is his VP! And we know where he runs with that ball after becoming Pres himself - "Mission Accomplished" And Paul Bremer! and the destruction of the ME after destroying Afghanistan and empowering the Iranian Mullahs. So he turns the Muslim world over to the Islamists; well done Bushes.

Now Obama - he sticks his head into the bucket, with Clinton as his head of state and manages further decline.

If you know anything of the world the only one is Trump. USA lost the war in Iraq by total pussified ROEs, ones which lost the region, and created the failure - and the political appointment of Bremer was the greatest statement of USA cronyism and ignoring reality, trying to project a false Western ideal on alien societies since the evil Dulls brothers.


Kerry said,
"Brownie is to Katrina what Paul Bremer is to peace in Iraq,
what George Tenet is to slam-dunk intelligence,
what Paul Wolfowitz is to parades paved with flowers in Baghdad, what Dick Cheney is to visionary energy policy,
what Donald Rumsfeld is to basic war planning,
what Tom DeLay is to ethics and
what George Bush is to 'Mission Accomplished' and
'Wanted Dead or Alive.' "

The Democrats have no stature in the world at all, many are afraid of Hillary, but none respect her.

The same for the Republicans - see the rap above. Weakness and cronyism! That has been the Presidents since Korea.

Now Trunp is scary - everyone is afraid of him, which is very good - but unlike the others he will not appoint party snakes for political reasons - he will use experts to manage! That is his strength, he has no baggage of appointments he has to make, no political debts being called due. He uses experts to manage - he is a policy guy with the best men to run things. This is 100% different from every president since Ike.

So Trump is scary, and he is not beholding to the political monster, and he is very smart and delegates, and he can make decisions without having to ask everyone around who also know nothing like Carter/Bushes/Clinton/Obama - Trump will get the best person to run things, and take no crap. He will make America Great again - and only when the USA is great is the world going to be doing well.

Interbane wrote:Johnson for president.

Hopefully this debacle will draw more attention toward libertarian votes...

Sorry, but if Libertarians received 1% of the total vote they'd declare a major victory...

Kinmle wrote:I am 100% behind Trump...
Trump is a complete ass and nuts...
...If you know anything of the world the only one is Trump.

Heh! And what has Trump accomplished? He inherited a yooooge amount of money and increased it by screwing his creditors with multiple bankruptcies and bribing politicians. Trump is a vacuous loudmouth. And "a complete ass and nuts."

Kinmle wrote:Meanwhile in all this crap Bush is his VP!

Wow, you mixed up two presidents.