Bob, dude, pay attention. My point is that you CANNOT use a question mark where you used one. It doesn't make sense.

Well then for those that want to seriously discuss matters about God you can go to BookDaily in about a month. You can currently go to facebook "Come on MAN, Speak English to ME about GOD" now and pose a question or join discussed questions. Thank You

Those were just suggestions of an outside observer. Nothing insulting was meant.


You need to see two movies or read the books. I would recommend the books.
1) Heaven is for real 2) 90 minutes in heaven. They contain truth that is beyond measure to deny the existence of God. Both tales are of profound truth! Give it a try.

Nothing smart intended!

Brother Bob, your sample chapter is incomprehensible, irrational, and in articulate. My suggestion is for you to find a ghost writer to do your writing for you.

I modified my comments above for the two of us to know. They were not made to upset you. It is a desperate attempt for you to seek truth. Good day man!

Bob, you're not upsetting me. No worries there.

But you need to swallow your pride and hire a ghost writer. Few people can write well enough to be capable of becoming an author. You need professional help. I cannot personally even understand what you're talking about enough to critique it.

Chris, so glad you said that. After the 13th time I almost forgot what you were trying to say. Have you ever heard of the phrase "beating a dead horse." Give it a rest dude. You like to pete and repeat so much. Trust me, I got it. I wonder if people still worry about their grammar when forced to leave the presence of God at the Great White Throne?

Focus on the important things in life. I appreciate your concern and have noted it.

Presupposition: A thing tacitly assumed at the beginning of an argument or course of action.

http://www.katholon.com/Logic.htm

Also from the wiki;

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Presuppositional_ ... pologetics

What I'm not really getting is "apologetics", My question is posed to any of the heavy hitters who can give me a simple explanation.

brother bob, give the two links a shot, tell me what you think.

Well, admitting that I did not look at the links because I know about presupposition. Correct me, which of course you will, if I am wrong. Presupposition is based on taking a preconceived notion before you have any proof. It is really starting from an unfair position from an ideological stand point.

The book did not start from this position. I proves the existence and being of God based on a blank sheet of paper. It uses supplemental evidences to support or prop up these conceived findings of God.

Case in point. Under the chapter "Why are there God rules?" It is discussing the concept of God from a different ideological position than you think. Possibly supposing as to "Why did God make the rules that He did?" However, the chapter deals with the notions and beliefs that has man that God must exhibit.

Just like others in this thread have questioned why God didn't stop slavery but prohibited the eating of crustaceans. Others have questioned "Why God made the labor of women so painful?" "Why didn't God intervene in the midst of war, famine, pestilence or rape?" All of these have a root issue that questions the character of God. If God was allowed or determined that it was fine for God to be some brute that smashed tall buildings by his mere breath or that God could have a few pet rogue nations, would be perfectly fine if that is what he wished.

Why does man expect God to exhibit certain positive characteristics?

Presupposition is seriously addressed in many ways. Some authors only want to state their prejudice position as to supporting of opposing God, or supporting a certain religion. The book addressed all spiritual systems, the major 5 plus Sikhism, to prove they are all right, wrong or one is right.

Good thought! It is a vital issue.

I started reading this initially and my dis-interest swept over me like a tidal wave and shunted me off to greener intellectual pastures.

Thank You actually. No comments in over 230 views means a lot. When men are given a point and say nothing it means they have no case to confute what is said. Best wishes!

I’m not trying to be mean, Bob. When you swell up like a toad and start croaking like this it seems you are begging for it.

Sigh… Ok, I’ll fire up the steam roller.

Jesus, by Living a Sinless Life is the Perfect Son of God…
So knowing anyone who had never sinned would prove they must be God.

No. It would prove they had adhered perfectly to a particular set of rules. Difficult but not proof of magic powers or immortality.

Jesus, being born of a virgin and living in the flesh of man, made Himself the most unique man in history.

Except that Jesus is far from the only deity which was born of a virgin.

You see, the complex part was making a being without man’s sinful DNA and combining it with God attributes so that Jesus had His dominant God genes.

Why the focus on genes? Are you suggesting Jesus came by his alleged supernatural powers through his genetics? Like Magneto? This suggests that god literally had a sexual genetic exchange with Mary. Is that really what you are saying?

If god is magical, ahem ….miraculous, then why would he need to use genes? What is god-like about Adenine, Guanine, thymine, and cytosine? Why isn’t Jesus’s superior “god genes” composed of confetti? Or Holy water? Or those crackers that turn into god when you whisper to them?

However, Jesus without Adam’s sin nature made Him physically equivalent to the original Adam with a body devoid of a sin nature – a body capable of not sinning.

Making him a kind of Uber man? His body was capable of not sinning because of the magical god genes? Haha.

His God characteristics controlled and reigned supreme over any temptation His body encountered. In essence God trumped any possibility of doing wrong.

Suggesting that god is punishing us for not being god. We are punished by god because we fail to live up to his standards of being like god… which he made us incapable of being because we were not given the proper genes.

His desire to live a life of Righteousness dominated His behavior. He always chose and did RIGHT. Thus He became the first and only man to never sin. Simply put, God cannot do any wrong to ever sin in a man’s shell of a body.

Which you just indicated was a result of his magical god genes. There’s no hope of us less-than-gods to live a sin free life no matter how much we might desire to live a life of righteousness or how we let that desire dominate our behavior. What’s the point of god doing donuts in his meaty sock puppet? He is incapable of showing us how to live a sinless life since we could never replicate that feat in our less-than-god bodies produced by intentionally inferior genes.

Man needs to understand the reason God needed to die for man’s wrongs… Here is the reason laid out that when completely clarified will make it easy to understand the purpose behind God’s actions.
A. The Picture Perfect Environment Destroyed
B. God’s Plan for Reconciliation
C. Mankind’s Desperate Need for SALVATION (to be saved from imminent peril or danger) only came by a SAVIOR!
D. Consequences clearly shown for those left UNPREPARED
E. LOGIC Proves the BIBLE’S PLAN OF SALVATION

Ok, lets make with the clarifications because the above is nonsense.

Some people vehemently opposed to God argue that since He is omniscient and all knowing that man would sin makes God wrong instead of man. They ask “Why, if God knew that all of this bad was going to happen would He create man… The answer is God created man to have a mutually enjoyable relationship based on free will actions. He did not want to produce puppets as one becomes quickly bored with such toys. God wanted the epitome of a true relationship where He and man worked together in harmony.

Do you understand what omniscience means? God cannot be surprised. He knows everything. That means he knows what your choice will be before you do. He knows what your choice will be before he decided to create the world. He could not be surprised when you choose right or wrong. He could not take pride in your choice to be good because he influenced that choice with everything he did previously. If you steal that’s part of god’s plan. Being omniscient it couldn’t NOT be. There is NO surprising an omniscient entity and using the words “free will” in that context makes them meaningless.

It is wrong of God to create mankind where less than 10% wind up having an eternal relationship with Him to experience extreme joy and wonder together? Just because 90% may not take Him up on His offer does not make it an illegitimate proposition.

God is omniscient. Those 90% are choosing what they chose because of what god did before that point. He knew when he did X that Y would be a consequence. God could tweek any number of things to turn 10% into 100%, not the least of which would be to do away with his own arbitrary rules. Who would stop him?

God never chose to have man separated from Him for eternity. God does all that He can to produce a restoration of our relationship, other than, forcing us to capitulate (give up, surrender). That would make Him just a brute. He chooses not to embrace or exhibit any such character.

God precisely did choose to separate us from him.
Continued below…


One of the things god could do to restore the relationship he poisoned so long ago is to instantly change everyone on the planet so that we would be more likely to choose good and set limits on how evil we can be. Does that make us puppets? More so than the limits god has already set on us?

God doesn’t let us incinerate each other with laser eyes. If we had laser eyes and CHOSE not to incinerate eachother with them we would be less of a puppet than we currently are. He’s already constricting our behavior by not letting us be god. The limits that have been set are arbitrary and he could put them anywhere he wants and we would have just as much “free will” in a situation where the worst sin we could commit is not saying hello to eachother on the street.

A. The Picture PERFECT Environment Destroyed
I often hear atheists complain that our world environment is so bad because it is imperfect because of certain evil in the world, and thus, making them question God’s lack of involvement to correct such wrongs. However, God created the perfect environment in only six days by making the Garden of Eden an oasis with the world’s best buffet, filled with luscious fruit, and outdoor sleeping arrangements. Adam and Eve had no laborious required chores. It was the perfect life of a permanent vacation. There was no sickness and no problems. God visited them on a regular basis to talk with Adam as they walked through the garden and provided the absolute best company. One would have to conclude this was the only true utopia ever experienced on earth.
God required only one thing in return, to not eat from the tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil in the Garden of Eden. Everything else was at their disposal, and better yet, free of charge. God was testing them to see if they could show restraint by choosing to obey Him. Adam choice was a temporal allurement to self-pleasure in exchange for the wondrous experience with the God of the Universe. Sadly, Adam failed the test and God was forced to kick him out of the Garden of Eden, telling man he must work for survival (Genesis 2-3). It is easy for man to exchange temporal pleasure over a fulfilling relationship with God. This all-time dumbest decision and most self-destructive behavior mankind repeats by opposing God’s laws.

Let me introduce you to this invention i made. I call it "The box of unending torture and punishment, for dogs". I made this box because i have a new beautiful puppy who loves me oh so very much. But i want to test him to see just HOW much does he loves me, and does he fear me enough to do exactly what i say no matter what.

So, i put the most irresistible treat in "The box of unending torture and punishment, for dogs" knowing full well that as a new born puppy with hardly any control over itself that it would find the irresistible treat... irresistible. Knowing full well that the puppy would gallop right into "The box of unending torture and punishment, for dogs" i placed that invention right in front of the puppy. But before i turned him loose i told him in no uncertain terms that he was NOT to go in there.

Next thing you know, the puppy dives right in. Well, what am i to do? i made "The box of unending torture and punishment, for dogs" specifically to torture and punish dogs. Now i have a dog in there, even though i told him not to go. What am i to do? Just turn him loose? after i warned him? Does he not realize that i am a man of my word?

Well, i guess, even though this entire situation is entirely in my control, and of my own design, i have no choice but to activate "The box of unending torture and punishment, for dogs".

But that also means i will have to get all the other dogs i can find and put them in there. Because the sin of one is enough to punish the lot.

Makes sense right?

God was not testing them. He doesn’t need to test anything. He’s omniscient. He knows what will happen before it happens. He isn’t forced to kick them out of the garden. Who’s forcing him? God’s older brother? His mom? Did god’s mom tell him he can’t play with his humans in the house because they were getting sin all over everything?

Mankind broke his relationship with God due to sin, breaking God’s laws and putting himself in an untenable (indefensible) position. God, being the offended party and in the superior position by being the Creator, dictated the rules of compensation. Since man had no means to compensate or barter with God, man’s consequence was death (meaning eternal separation from Him), the only means to appease His wrath.

God’s choosing the thing he’s upset about, and what to do about it. He could have chosen to cast us into a lake of fire because we had fingernails… well who gave us fingernails? Who said it was BAD to have fingernails…. AFTER MAKING SURE WE HAD THEM?

God showed the picture of how RECONCILIATION had to come about by showing the sacrifice an animal, likely a lamb, as Adam and Eve observed the proceedings

So Christianity is a blood sacrifice religion. It does not condemn human sacrifice, it attempts to convince us that one human sacrifice was so damned successful it saved us all. Sign me up!

This sacrificial death provided them temporary physical covering of clothing and signified how sin could also be spiritually temporarily covered. Because one animal’s death could not take away Adam’s sin and appease God’s wrath, it would be unfair to create a being to fully pay for the wrongs of someone else.

But it IS fair to create a whole herd of goats for the purpose of ritual blood sacrifice and NOT repay the alleged debt? What?!

Sin was not fully dealt with, but rather “swept under the rug” where ultimately there would have to be a day of reckoning (a settling of accounts).

Translation god was SO pissed we disobeyed him by doing the thing he knew we were going to do, and knew we couldn’t change, that he’s going to keep punishing us for it forever…. Literally.

Only God had the means to come up with a plan to rectify and satisfy His wrath for wrongs done to Him.

No. God has literally every means there is. Omnipotence. He can do anything he wants, including forgiving us for something that’s only wrong because he decided it was wrong.

To be the “bigger man” is what mankind thinks about their sin, even though mankind does not even practice this type of forgiveness themselves.

So we should not expect god to behave any better than us? Why are we looking up to him?

Men often harbor pent-up anger from the wrongs others have done to them to years, rather than, forgiving them and going on with life. Sounds rather “two-faced” doesn’t it; man telling God to do standards which we don’t practice ourselves. This is simply so hypocritical and downright wrong of man, which of course is another sin.

You are right! That is hypocritical and downright wrong. Especially if you are a god with supposedly limitless powers of cognition and empathy.

1. The Best Example of Why Mankind Cannot Spend Eternity with God!...

Suppose I killed your brother and was sentenced by our court of law to serve 20 years to “pay” for my committed crime…God, like this man, is such an offended party that death (separation) is seemingly the only answer! God is torn by wanting to spend eternity with us, but He cannot due to our SIN which brings His RIGHTEOUS ANGER.

Pfft. This is the best example?

Another way to look at sin is like a person with asthma cooped up in a very small, closed off room, only to have someone come in and “chain smoke” packs of cigarettes. If that person with asthma was God, He could not possibly stay in that room; He would have to leave to get fresh air. God cannot possibly spend an elongated period of time with us in heaven due to our sin.

What are you talking about? We can smoke out god with our measly sins? So if I sneak into heaven with a bag full of Richard Dawkins books I can run at god with them in front of me and get him out of his throne?
This makes no sense at all. God created the world. Nothing can happen in that world that is not something god made. Why? Because he made it all. God’s just SO grossed out by sinning that he can’t stand us for being a part of it? Then why did he make sinning possible?

In this case, God lost His fellowship with mankind due to our sin, causing enmity (to become enemies)

… I got this far, then I ran completely out of shits to give.


There’s nothing new here.

Don’t say omniscient when you mean he is blind. Don’t say omni-benevolent when you mean vindictive. Don’t say omnipotent when you mean incompetent.

I can see now why we have all stood by in silence as these majestic words glistened on our screens.

Boo.