Even for murder? I thought there were some morals that were absolute.ant wrote:I think maybe Christ's forgiving of the criminal being crucified next to him indicates forgiveness is possible when genuine repentance is expressed.
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Pinker's moral imperative for bioethics: "Get out of the way"
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- Interbane
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Re: Pinker's moral imperative for bioethics: "Get out of the way"
“In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and has been widely regarded as a bad move.” - Douglas Adams
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Re: Pinker's moral imperative for bioethics: "Get out of the way"
Interbane wrote:Even for murder? I thought there were some morals that were absolute.ant wrote:I think maybe Christ's forgiving of the criminal being crucified next to him indicates forgiveness is possible when genuine repentance is expressed.
You're not familiar with the new testament?
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Re: Pinker's moral imperative for bioethics: "Get out of the way"
Not as familiar as Flann or Stahrwe, for sure. I mainly read modern fiction. Forgive me for not memorizing it all.
From my childhood, I remember learning two different things. In my Lutheran church, all sins were forgiven, future, past and present. Even murder. So your future murders are forgiven. So, abortions are already forgiven. But you have to believe in Jesus. If you're a Buddhist instead, your abortion isn't forgiven and you burn in hell.
But in my grandma's baptist church, the preacher made it a point to read from numbers. I could look it up, but I'm sure you have it memorized. Something about someone who commits a murder being put to death after testimony of two or more witnesses.
From my childhood, I remember learning two different things. In my Lutheran church, all sins were forgiven, future, past and present. Even murder. So your future murders are forgiven. So, abortions are already forgiven. But you have to believe in Jesus. If you're a Buddhist instead, your abortion isn't forgiven and you burn in hell.
But in my grandma's baptist church, the preacher made it a point to read from numbers. I could look it up, but I'm sure you have it memorized. Something about someone who commits a murder being put to death after testimony of two or more witnesses.
“In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and has been widely regarded as a bad move.” - Douglas Adams
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Re: Pinker's moral imperative for bioethics: "Get out of the way"
Interbane wrote:Not as familiar as Flann or Stahrwe, for sure. I mainly read modern fiction. Forgive me for not memorizing it all.
From my childhood, I remember learning two different things. In my Lutheran church, all sins were forgiven, future, past and present. Even murder. So your future murders are forgiven. So, abortions are already forgiven. But you have to believe in Jesus. If you're a Buddhist instead, your abortion isn't forgiven and you burn in hell.
But in my grandma's baptist church, the preacher made it a point to read from numbers. I could look it up, but I'm sure you have it memorized. Something about someone who commits a murder being put to death after testimony of two or more witnesses.
I was in a Christian academy for 9 years but did not experience the same blunt trauma as you apparently have.
I did not marry into a religious family, nor have I ever experienced religious nightmares that caused me to wake up screaming in the middle of the night.
I guess I'm just mentally stronger than those that have.
Re-read the new testament and get back to me.
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Re: Pinker's moral imperative for bioethics: "Get out of the way"
No, thanks. I'd rather have your opinion. Is the pope right that abortions are forgiven if a woman believes in Jesus?ant wrote:Re-read the new testament and get back to me.
You don't have to give your opinion, if it's not well enough thought out Perhaps Flann or Stahrwe could untangle this for me.
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Re: Pinker's moral imperative for bioethics: "Get out of the way"
Interbane,
I am not a Roman Catholic, so I may not have this right, but my understanding is that they do not make a thing of "believes in Jesus." Yes, you are supposed to, but it is following, more than "believing in" that is emphasized.
The condition for forgiveness, for all Christians, is repentance. This means that you feel it was wrong, and you are determined not to repeat it. We are all pretty understanding about people being determined and then blowing it. There are lots of things in our nature working against our resolve to do the Good.
On a subsidiary level there is theology about Jesus' blood atoning for our sin, if we are willing to trust that it does so. Most of us Progressive Christians would not put it transactionally these days, but the workings of grace should not get as much emphasis as the fact of it.
My concern with Francis' pronouncement is, of course, that it does not go far enough. Fine. He is staying within the pronouncements of the 19th Century, and since these were ex cathedra, only a Council should overturn them.
I am not a Roman Catholic, so I may not have this right, but my understanding is that they do not make a thing of "believes in Jesus." Yes, you are supposed to, but it is following, more than "believing in" that is emphasized.
The condition for forgiveness, for all Christians, is repentance. This means that you feel it was wrong, and you are determined not to repeat it. We are all pretty understanding about people being determined and then blowing it. There are lots of things in our nature working against our resolve to do the Good.
On a subsidiary level there is theology about Jesus' blood atoning for our sin, if we are willing to trust that it does so. Most of us Progressive Christians would not put it transactionally these days, but the workings of grace should not get as much emphasis as the fact of it.
My concern with Francis' pronouncement is, of course, that it does not go far enough. Fine. He is staying within the pronouncements of the 19th Century, and since these were ex cathedra, only a Council should overturn them.
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Re: Pinker's moral imperative for bioethics: "Get out of the way"
Interbane wrote:No, thanks. I'd rather have your opinion. Is the pope right that abortions are forgiven if a woman believes in Jesus?ant wrote:Re-read the new testament and get back to me.
You don't have to give your opinion, if it's not well enough thought out Perhaps Flann or Stahrwe could untangle this for me.
Yes the Pope is right because he is the closest thing to God on Earth.
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Re: Pinker's moral imperative for bioethics: "Get out of the way"
This is interesting. So if we follow our moral emotions in a way that allows them to guide our behavior, we can be forgiven? I completely agree with this.Harry wrote:The condition for forgiveness, for all Christians, is repentance. This means that you feel it was wrong, and you are determined not to repeat it. We are all pretty understanding about people being determined and then blowing it. There are lots of things in our nature working against our resolve to do the Good.
“In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and has been widely regarded as a bad move.” - Douglas Adams