Chris OConnor wrote:All this feigned outrage at Bishop is laughable.

I don't feel outrage Chris.
He talks about Christianity being misogynistic and I just point out what Jesus taught about loving not hating people. That's the standard not what some people say falsely in that name.
He just ignored Stahrwe's response and made exactly the same false claim almost immediately. I find this myself. I answer some points of his but he just repeats the same thing again. So what do you do?
Make the same point again like a parrot?

Chris OConnor wrote:I'd like an honest answer to why we never hear Christians speaking out against the atrocities of the Bible. All they say is that atheists are taking the scary parts out of context, but then they fail to place those evil passages into any context that makes them less disgusting.

I've tried to provide a response to this. You may think this is not good enough and that's your right. I find it inconsistent when atheists complain about God not intervening to prevent evil and then when God judges evil they complain about how evil God is to do this.
Do you seriously think that for his atrocities Josef Mengele doesn't actually deserve some sort of recompense?
There's a real problem here with justice if he can just take off to Brazil or wherever then die and end of story.
I find the waffle of Sam Harris absurd with his talk of chemically treating murderous criminals and then if it's suggested that such behaviour actually deserves punishment it is considered barbaric.
I don't have all the answers but I see an aspect of God's character in his not just pretending evil doesn't deserve judgement but he takes that on himself and offers his enemies forgiveness.
There are bible passages I can't square with this and people can reject the explanations of Williams and Copan but I don't think they are groundless or just sophistry.

LisaRose64 wrote:

Flann 5 wrote:

LisaRose64 wrote:Wow. You did a lot of quoting of everything but the Bible. I don't what to tell you. All that I know is that Jesus first appeared to Mary Magdalene, she must have been important.

A little help her Flann 5?

Stahrwe gave a reply to G.B. on this, Lisa. He just doesn't hear the answers and carries on with the same argument that has just been answered, so it's pointless really.

Thanks for the help. It must be me, because he sounds like a drone, I am getting lost, he jumps all over the mat, then changes his tune.

Read more about it here:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schizophrenia

Ant:
IIfthe same tactics were being used to make a gay member of BT feel lousy about themselves or their chosen faith, id express the same outrage.

Is this an example of a straw man argument?

Also, did we witness this thread deteriorate to an ad hominem?

Chris:
But HERE in THIS thread I am failing to understand the shit storm blowing his way. The ACTUAL Bible was used by Bishop to make his points.

Bishop didn't concede, whereas on points of logic the theistic side has no choice but to.
In this thread we were asked to use the POV of the bible, an obvious concession.



God and Satan as tools for debate, can these be considered weasel words?

Have we not seen the slippery slope and suppressed evidence?
How about short term vs. long term?

In this thread we are witness to everything Carl Sagan warns against in Demon Haunted Night.

Note to Johnson 1010; years ago, when I first signed up on BookTalk, you suggested I read the _ucking manual, I have, I may not have a total grasp, but I'm getting there. Thanks

LisaRose64 wrote:[
Who's the God you follow,G.B?

Misogyny is defined as the hatred of women. Christianity doesn't teach to hate women. Jesus didn't teach to hate anyone but the opposite.

Jesus and his divorce policy deny women the same rights as men enjoy. He was a Jew and in his day, women were chattel. Note where women are put in the coveting commandment. Between the house and the ass.

Disrespecting women as teachers and consigning them to always be the ruled and never the ruler, Gen 3;16, are signs of hatred, not love.

As to my God. I have written the laws of God in my heart the way Jesus said we should do.
That make me my God.

Let me explain using Christian and Jewish myths.

This Gnostic Christian’s apology for calling myself God.

Adam and Eve became as Gods when they gained a moral sense and no longer had their mind cut off from intelligent thought. As our primordial ancestors, we inherit that same trait even though Christianity wrongly thinks that to be evil and a fall. Retaining dominion over the earth, humans never revoked this inherited trait of a moral sense, --- and the right for man to judge himself. Jesus highlights this when he took the seat of judgement at God’s right hand.

When I use terms like “I am God”, or “you are God”, I am not speaking of the traditional miracle working God of scriptures and myths. He does not exist as far as we can know as he has never made an appearance to prove his reality.

What I am trying to convey to you by saying that you are a God in your own right is to be master of yourself and you need not be a sheep. You can, as Jesus says, pick up your burdens and responsibilities for your sins and follow his mind set. Be a shepherd. Lead by example.

What I am trying to convey is that the only God you can ever know is the good you find within yourself. It's your ideal of God and of the Jesus or Christ mind. That is quite different from me or someone thinking they are the traditional creator God, or thinking that they are more than anyone else. Both Jesus and the Christ in these myths are for equality. Not the misogyny that we presently enjoy. That is another topic though. We are to be co-equal with Jesus.

Romans 8:29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.

Jesus would explain this concept as one just seeing that they have joined God’s Divine Council by embracing his own Christ mind. Or better said, as this is the more eastern Jesus, we activate our pineal gland and open our third eye.

Matthew 6:22 The light of the body is the eye: if therefore thine eye be single, thy whole body shall be full of light.

John 14:23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.

Luke 17:21 Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Divine_Council

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=alRNbes ... r_embedded

Regards
DL

Regards
DL[/quote]


Wow. You did a lot of quoting of everything but the Bible. I don't what to tell you. All that I know is that Jesus first appeared to Mary Magdalene, she must have been important.

[/quote]

My pleasure to quote your bible with words that you will never hear in church because they want you on your knees and not standing tall as all women and men should.

Matthew 6:22 The light of the body is the eye: if therefore thine eye be single, thy whole body shall be full of light.

John 14:23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.

Luke 17:21 Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.

Romans 8:29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.

Listen to what Jesus says from the bible.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oR02cia ... =PLCBF574D


You seemed so eager to have your bible back up something but listen again to where you are to get your information and again I quote Jesus. Just nothing your church ever teaches.

Luke 11:52 Woe unto you, lawyers! for ye have taken away the key of knowledge: ye entered not in yourselves, and them that were entering in ye hindered.

Mark 7:13 Making the word of God of none effect through your tradition, which ye have delivered: and many such like things do ye.

Regards
DL

Flann 5 wrote:

Gnostic Bishop wrote:Adam and Eve became as Gods when they gained a moral sense and no longer had their mind cut off from intelligent thought. As our primordial ancestors, we inherit that same trait even though Christianity wrongly thinks that to be evil and a fall.

What!!!!!? You are a creationist. And there was I thinking it was evolution that caused all the evil in our world. I guess the God you follow created them.
Thanks for clearing that up G.B.

Will you be an ass hole forever?

Regards
DL

Flann 5 wrote:

LisaRose64 wrote:Wow. You did a lot of quoting of everything but the Bible. I don't what to tell you. All that I know is that Jesus first appeared to Mary Magdalene, she must have been important.

A little help her Flann 5?

Stahrwe gave a reply to G.B. on this, Lisa. He just doesn't hear the answers and carries on with the same argument that has just been answered, so it's pointless really.

Answered. Not refuted.

Your Christian hate is showing quite a lot. I am close to ignoring your sorry ass.

Regards
DL

Chris OConnor wrote:I'd like an honest answer to why we never hear Christians speaking out against the atrocities of the Bible. All they say is that atheists are taking the scary parts out of context, but then they fail to place those evil passages into any context that makes them less disgusting.

All this feigned outrage at Bishop is laughable. Yes, the guy is quite blunt, harsh and confrontational. I don't understand his position on much of what is being discussed, but this is mainly because I pop my head into these discussions sporadically. But HERE in THIS thread I am failing to understand the shit storm blowing his way. The ACTUAL Bible was used by Bishop to make his points.

Christians, have the balls to admit that the Bible has some really really disgusting and offensive content. Stop with this ridiculous argument that those stories are not meant to be taken literaly or that we're simply not understanding the context. Come on now. We can all read. There is no context that makes stoning your own children to death acceptable. I don't care how unruly they may be acting.

Christians, if you want respect then earn it. You can still believe in a God without denying the evil found in the Christian Bible. Yet you won't because that's your damn book and admitting it holds some really sick crap would expose your faith to even more scrutiny and you just can't have that now can you?

I don't know if they can ever admit the truth they say fills the bible. Especially when people like Flann are so busy throwing politically correct personal insults all over the place because he hold a grudge for not being able to win any arguments.

I should be stronger. I ignore a lot of his garbage but do react to some.

Apologies to the board members who have to see my mouthy side as I respond to one who is quite a disgusting character with satanic morals. Those satanic morals is why he does not argue for his God and prefers personal attacks on the messenger to deflect from the message.

Regards
DL

LisaRose64 wrote:

Flann 5 wrote:

LisaRose64 wrote:Wow. You did a lot of quoting of everything but the Bible. I don't what to tell you. All that I know is that Jesus first appeared to Mary Magdalene, she must have been important.

A little help her Flann 5?

Stahrwe gave a reply to G.B. on this, Lisa. He just doesn't hear the answers and carries on with the same argument that has just been answered, so it's pointless really.

Thanks for the help. It must be me, because he sounds like a drone, I am getting lost, he jumps all over the mat, then changes his tune.

Get out of your state of denial and it all become clear.

You have a lot of years invested in your God and you don't care that he can sit there for 6 days and torture a baby before finally killing it.

Note what kind of human your God has created in you when you can just shrug that kind of injustice away.

You have sold your soul to Satan.

Your bible says that you are not fit to teach but I wish you were fit to learn that torturing and killing babies is quite satanic.

Regards
DL

Flann 5 wrote:

Chris OConnor wrote:All this feigned outrage at Bishop is laughable.

I don't feel outrage Chris.
He talks about Christianity being misogynistic and I just point out what Jesus taught about loving not hating people. That's the standard not what some people say falsely in that name.
He just ignored Stahrwe's response and made exactly the same false claim almost immediately. I find this myself. I answer some points of his but he just repeats the same thing again. So what do you do?
Make the same point again like a parrot?

Chris OConnor wrote:I'd like an honest answer to why we never hear Christians speaking out against the atrocities of the Bible. All they say is that atheists are taking the scary parts out of context, but then they fail to place those evil passages into any context that makes them less disgusting.

I've tried to provide a response to this. You may think this is not good enough and that's your right. I find it inconsistent when atheists complain about God not intervening to prevent evil and then when God judges evil they complain about how evil God is to do this.
Do you seriously think that for his atrocities Josef Mengele doesn't actually deserve some sort of recompense?
There's a real problem here with justice if he can just take off to Brazil or wherever then die and end of story.
I find the waffle of Sam Harris absurd with his talk of chemically treating murderous criminals and then if it's suggested that such behaviour actually deserves punishment it is considered barbaric.
I don't have all the answers but I see an aspect of God's character in his not just pretending evil doesn't deserve judgement but he takes that on himself and offers his enemies forgiveness.
There are bible passages I can't square with this and people can reject the explanations of Williams and Copan but I don't think they are groundless or just sophistry.

"not intervening to prevent evil"

That was never the issue.

It was God doing evil.

You say that criminals deserve punishment. I agree.

They do deserve punishment but in the cases in the O.P. your God does not punish the offenders he punishes their babies and children.

Speak to that and the justice in it.

Regards
DL

Taylor wrote:

Ant:
IIfthe same tactics were being used to make a gay member of BT feel lousy about themselves or their chosen faith, id express the same outrage.

Is this an example of a straw man argument?

Also, did we witness this thread deteriorate to an ad hominem?

Chris:
But HERE in THIS thread I am failing to understand the shit storm blowing his way. The ACTUAL Bible was used by Bishop to make his points.

Bishop didn't concede, whereas on points of logic the theistic side has no choice but to.
In this thread we were asked to use the POV of the bible, an obvious concession.



God and Satan as tools for debate, can these be considered weasel words?

Have we not seen the slippery slope and suppressed evidence?
How about short term vs. long term?

In this thread we are witness to everything Carl Sagan warns against in Demon Haunted Night.

Note to Johnson 1010; years ago, when I first signed up on BookTalk, you suggested I read the _ucking manual, I have, I may not have a total grasp, but I'm getting there. Thanks

In this case, I provided the evidence but few theists speak to it as the would rather speak of the messenger so that others wont see that evidence or get the message.

Some might call that hypocrisy.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yhTM4pxBL-k

Sometimes being a hypocrite is all Christians have to hang on to.

Regards
DL