A question....

Mr. Pessimistic · Posted: Mon Jun 05, 2006 12:12 pm Post subject: A question....

What exactly are the Republicans and Fundies PROTECTING marriage from? Like gay people are trying to tarnish it or something. Are they going to "marriage bash" you think...

Mr. P.

The one thing of which I am positive is that there is much of which to be negative - Mr. P.

Once you perceive the irrevocable truth, you can no longer justify the irrational denial. - Mr. P.

The pain in hell has two sides. The kind you can touch with your hand; the kind you can feel in your heart...Scorsese's "Mean Streets"

I came to kick ass and chew Bubble Gum...and I am all out of Bubble Gum - They Live, Roddy Piper

MadArchitect · Posted: Mon Jun 05, 2006 3:07 pm Post subject: Re: A question....

I think there's probably an economic component to the argument. Recognizing someone's marriage as legitimate entitles them to certain benefits and exemptions -- tax exemptions, for instance, and spousal benefits on things like life insurance, and so forth. Opening the range of relationships that qualify as marriage will result in a wider range of exemptions, which will cost certain kinds of business a great deal of money. And in the long term, it will probably end up costing straight couples, as the companies and IRS start to decrease the amount alotted to spousal exemptions.

Others believe that bending the definition of marriage will undermine one of the essential foundations of society, leading to the spread of immorality and crime. At root in that belief, I would say, is a kind of distrust of anything that veers too sharply from the conventions of traditional Western families. In certain kinds of society, gay marriage probably would have had a demoralizing effect, simply because the society itself was so dependent on a particular family structure. I don't think that's the case with our society, which is far more pluralistic than, say, Victorian England.

Others probably don't know precisely why they're against gay marriage.

And while we're at it, are we certain that it's only Republicans and fundies that oppose gay marriage?

Mr. Pessimistic · Posted: Mon Jun 05, 2006 3:16 pm Post subject: Re: A question....

Quote:
And while we're at it, are we certain that it's only Republicans and fundies that oppose gay marriage?

Probably not...but that is really all I see pushing the issue...making the fuss...stoking the flames...

While I understand there are financial issues, I just do not think that is why it is being pushed now. It is election year and this is an attempt to rally the religious base for the COnservatives. Not one item I have seen heard or read mentions much at all about finances...and anyway, if they homosexuals were not marrying each other and could be 'cured' (which it cannot be, since it is not a condition or malady), they would marry someone of the opposite sex, so are the financial factors really the issue?

Only one Democrat I see is supporting the amendment in the Senate...so I think we can pretty much say this is a Conservative/Republican/Fundie issue...for all intents and purposes. If this amendment were to somehow pass...it would be the first time the Constitution was amended to restrict or deny rights to a group of people. Or am I mistaken about that?

Mr. P.

The one thing of which I am positive is that there is much of which to be negative - Mr. P.

Once you perceive the irrevocable truth, you can no longer justify the irrational denial. - Mr. P.

The pain in hell has two sides. The kind you can touch with your hand; the kind you can feel in your heart...Scorsese's "Mean Streets"

I came to kick ass and chew Bubble Gum...and I am all out of Bubble Gum - They Live, Roddy Piper

riverc0il · Posted: Mon Jun 05, 2006 4:03 pm Post subject: Re: A question....

Quote:
And while we're at it, are we certain that it's only Republicans and fundies that oppose gay marriage?

one of my co-workers is a libertarian and he is against gay marriage. ::115

i kid you not, i couldn't make this stuff up!! i pointed out the extreme break in political view points this creates, that government should dictate social regulations to the people, and he admitted it was a blatent contradiction but he just couldn't stand the idea. then he goes on to discuss how much the issue of racist remarks in the euro soccer world sucks.

::70

Dissident Heart · Posted: Tue Jun 06, 2006 1:17 am Post subject: Re: A question....

I think the important issue in this case is Scapegoating.

I don't think the actual power players in the Republican Party care at all about where genitalia should or shouldn't go. They do care about votes. More specifically, they want an already severely compromised election process to be even further trivialized: instead of substantive issues that actually matter, fabricate bogeymen and fairies who are deviously working to tear down civilization.

I think the Right has a corner on this market, especially since the Left is unwilling to take seriously the very real spiritual concerns of most Americans.

Most Americans are frightened for their homes and families and feel numb in the face of so much fear. Their futures are bleak and the prospects for really changing anything for the better is steadily declining. They are surrounded by bad news all day long, war and threats of terrorism, profound economic insecurity, technology well beyond their control, and ecological disasters of collosal proportions.

This creates a serious crisis of meaning and hope. The Right has learned how to manipulate religion and spirituality to speak to this crisis. They've manufactured a narrative of eschatological certainty and national supremacy: one that has offers an eternal place of moral certitude, political potency, and existential meaning.

It also comes complete with demons and devils and villians who can be blamed for the crisis: a clear distinction between good guys and bad guys and the necessity to rid the world of the latter.

The fight against LGBT Marriage is one piece of this dynamic.

Loricat · Posted: Thu Jun 08, 2006 10:29 am Post subject: Re: A question....

We're dealing with the same thing here in Canada. Our new Prime Minister, Neo-Conservative, Bush-wannabe, Stephen Harper is, so far, only keeping one election promise: bring the question of legalizing gay marriage back into the House for a free vote. "Hellooo Stephen, it's already a law!"

His other decisions: no communication with the Press, no photographing of dead Canadian soldiers' coffins (he got that idea from Bush, obviously), appointing a non-elected buddy to a cabinet seat (after he campaigned against that kind of nepotism), appointing a member of the opposition who crossed the floor the day after the election to the cabinet (after he campaigned against that kind of behaviour)...

Is the average Canadian who is for/against gay marriage? I don't know, but my bet would be yes...mostly because we don't get all 'het up' about this kind of thing.

"All beings are the owners of their deeds, the heirs to their deeds."

Loricat's Book Nook
Celebrating the Absurd


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