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The Bible. Myth or Reality?

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Flann 5
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Re: The Bible. Myth or Reality?

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Gnostic Bishop wrote:Only those who do not look think that only one Jesus is presented in scriptures.

Any time you want to stop running from moral debates on what Jesus taught, I am here for you.

And yes, morality is partly personal taste as morals are subjective.

That is why one can easily see that there is more than one Jesus in scriptures.
If morals are subjective then what is good or evil is merely your opinion. How is anything good or evil if we are just products of blind evolutionary processes programmed to pass on genes?
How could rape be evil if it facilitates the survival success of your genes? In a debate Lawrence Krauss opined that incest could be morally fine if it was based on love.
Do you agree with Krauss? Doesn't this kind of subjective morality amount to whatever I think is good is good.If you disagree that's just your subjective moral opinion.
Jesus is recorded as saying this;" Greater love has no man than this, that he lay down his life for his friends."
Do you disagree with this Bishop?
We consider those who fought and died in the war against the Nazis to be heroic and moral to do so.
Concerning his sacrifice Christ said this; "I lay down my life of myself,no man takes it from me." Yet you constantly try to distort and pervert this into being an evil act.
That is a reflection on your moral thinking.
It's not true that I run from moral debates.I have responded to the typical new atheist style tirades against the morality of the bible from you.
Here's one example of the kind of response I have provided by Peter Williams. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=agmHVFN2ip0
I don't expect you to agree but it's not as simple or obvious as you seem to think.
Gnostic Bishop wrote:Only a fool would make such a statement when a consensus has yet to be reached.
This of course is on the historicity of Jesus. Absolute bunkum and disingenuous as I have repeatedly shown that there is an overwhelming consensus among historians and scholars on this question.
Gnostic Bishop wrote:You show a total ignorance of the Jews. From ancient times the Rabbis have always been able to overrule the written traditions and that God when they did not agree with what was written.
An unsubstantiated assertion. Provide evidence for your claim here Bishop.
Gnostic Bishop wrote:Yes, they were basically using their sacrifice to forgive each other then celebrate the fact with the cooked lamb. It was their way to have closure and a new start by shedding old grudges.
And what is your evidence for this? You want to redefine God as being "the good you find within yourself." This is pathetic, and you want to rewrite the history of ancient religions to fit your ideas.
http://www.encyclopedia.com/article-1G2 ... t-and.html
Last edited by Flann 5 on Thu May 28, 2015 9:36 am, edited 5 times in total.
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Re: The Bible. Myth or Reality?

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Flann wrote:

"This of course is on the historicity of Jesus. Absolute bunkum and disingenuous as I have repeatedly shown that there is an overwhelming consensus among historians and scholars on this question."

Ive done this before but had to do it again:

Most all of the google hits you can skim over as listed that discuss the lack of scholarly consensus on the historicity of Jesus are from atheist websites.
What a surprise, huh?

Robert T a few years back said the same thing. When I exposed it as bunk, the explanation was that there was a conspiracy in place to silence the truth because scholars would be out of a job if it were known.
(This doesnt explain why the agnostic and agnostic/atheist scholars who concur would be afraid the repercussions)

Denying the consensus is of course important to mythers and anti christian atheists for emotional reasons.


"Virtually all scholars who write on the subject accept that Jesus existed,[7][8][9][10]although scholars differ about the beliefs and teachings of Jesus as well as the accuracy of the accounts of his life, and the only two events subject to "almost universal assent" are that Jesus was baptized by John the Baptist and was crucifiedby the order of the Roman Prefect Pontius Pilate" - wiki

And of course to say that because the Bible contains some questionable historical events that can not be evidenced 2 thousand years later, so Jesus must not have existed is a non sequitur.
So is nonsesne like "Jesus was called the son of god. The sun was a celestial body that was worshiped, therefore jesus is a myth"

Of course myther "scholarship " must deny the existence of Christ. If they didnt no one would buy their books.
Atheists were a willing audience. Particularly after 911
Last edited by ant on Thu May 28, 2015 10:03 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: The Bible. Myth or Reality?

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Flann --- Jesus is recorded as saying this;" Greater love has no man than this, that he lay down his life for his friends."
Do you disagree with this Bishop?

G B --- No. It is something I agree with.

It does not apply to Jesus if he was God and most Christians say he is God. That or a man who knew he was going to resurrect which most men do not believe.

Further, God cannot lay down his life as he cannot die.

What was your pint again?

Flann --- We consider those who fought and died in the war against the Nazis to be heroic and moral to do so.
Concerning his sacrifice Christ said this; "I lay down my life of myself,no man takes it from me." Yet you constantly try to distort and pervert this into being an evil act.
That is a reflection on your moral thinking.

G B --- Absolutely, and that morality is what I try to get you to change yet you run from trying to do so.

You are quite selective in your quotes and do not show where Jesus says that he does his fathers will and that without it he can do nothing.

You have him volunteering while ignoring this.

1Peter 1:20 0 He was chosen before the creation of the world, but was revealed in these last times for your sake.

As above so below.

Tell us Flann, if you were a God the Father or a human father, would you send your child to suffer for a requirement you decided was needed, a death, or would you step up yourself?

You say that you do not run from moral decisions so lets see your honest moral reply.

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DL
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Re: The Bible. Myth or Reality?

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Ant

With all those you think believe in a real Jesus, one would think that the words Jesus said about anyone believing in him being able to do the things he did and more would have been proven by one of these so called believers.

What do you think believers are waiting for to do as Jesus said they could do?

If they do not act, then would you say that so called believers do not truly believe?

Regards
DL
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Re: The Bible. Myth or Reality?

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Gnostic Bishop wrote:ell us Flann, if you were a God the Father or a human father, would you send your child to suffer for a requirement you decided was needed, a death, or would you step up yourself?

You say that you do not run from moral decisions so lets see your honest moral reply.
Your analogy is inaccurate Bishop. In the Bible, Christ is himself God co-equal with the Father and Holy Spirit and not "a child."
Christ as God agrees to accept this role from the Father and voluntarily, not of necessity (since he is is co-equal) humbles himself and subordinates himself as we see explained in Phillipians Ch 2.
A completely different proposition.
You say "God cannot lay down his life as he cannot die." Are you being deliberately obtuse? God became incarnate in Christ both human and divine and died as a man but not as to his divine nature.
I know you don't believe these things but you should try to understand and represent them accurately and fairly.
Last edited by Flann 5 on Thu May 28, 2015 10:48 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: The Bible. Myth or Reality?

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Flann wrote:Christ is himself God co-equal with the Father and Holy Spirit and not "a child."
:shock:

Who comes up with this stuff?
In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and has been widely regarded as a bad move.” - Douglas Adams
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Re: The Bible. Myth or Reality?

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Flann 5 wrote:
Gnostic Bishop wrote:ell us Flann, if you were a God the Father or a human father, would you send your child to suffer for a requirement you decided was needed, a death, or would you step up yourself?

You say that you do not run from moral decisions so lets see your honest moral reply.
Your analogy is inaccurate Bishop. In the Bible, Christ is himself God co-equal with the Father and Holy Spirit and not "a child."
Christ as God agrees to accept this role from the Father and voluntarily, not of necessity (since he is is co-equal) humbles himself and subordinates himself as we see explained in Phillipians Ch 2.
A completely different proposition.
You say "God cannot lay down his life as he cannot die." Are you being deliberately obtuse? God became incarnate in Christ both human and divine and died as a man but not as to his divine nature.
I know you don't believe these things but you should try to understand and represent them accurately and fairly.
Jesus said --- Only the Father knows the time of the end.

So much for co-equal.

Again you lie instead of showing your morals.

Oh wait. You did, and they are quite satanic.

No wonder you try to hide them and deflect to your un-provable garbage.

Repent or get thee behind me Satan.

Regards
DL
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Re: The Bible. Myth or Reality?

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Gnostic Bishop wrote:Ant

With all those you think believe in a real Jesus, one would think that the words Jesus said about anyone believing in him being able to do the things he did and more would have been proven by one of these so called believers.

What do you think believers are waiting for to do as Jesus said they could do?

If they do not act, then would you say that so called believers do not truly believe?

Regards
DL
I'm talking about the historical Jesus that scholars unanimously agree existed.
His words and their interpretation are a separate issue.

I was merely pointing out what mythers, astrotheologists, and their atheist supporters choose to ignore.

You may red herring this as much as you want.
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Re: The Bible. Myth or Reality?

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"scholars unanimously agree"

A bald faced lie.

Is that the best you can do?

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DL
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Re: The Bible. Myth or Reality?

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Gnostic Bishop wrote:Jesus said --- Only the Father knows the time of the end.

So much for co-equal.
I don't claim or pretend to understand the incarnation Bishop. Clearly it involves certain self imposed and necessary limitations. So as a human baby his knowledge would be necessarily restricted and this statement about not knowing the time of the end arises from his speaking as a human in time, I imagine.
Maybe not. I don't claim to understand the trinity or the working of the mind of God. How could I?
Gnostic Bishop wrote:Repent or get thee behind me Satan.
Who's he? The evil that we find within ourselves? Is there some gnostic equivalent apotheosis where the only devil you will ever know is you, and you discover this by gnosis?
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