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Searching for gravitational waves is like searching for alien intelligence

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lehelvandor
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Re: Searching for gravitational waves is like searching for alien intelligence

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ant wrote:disease of homocentricity
By saying, again disregarding even the easier references to Lem and the summarised meaning of what he postulates, that e.g. laws of enthropy or that anything (again in case it may be grasped) overlapping with our class of civilisation in what the chain of terms in Drake-Sagan equation mean, are just homocentric conventions is just silly. And I won't use the f word as some do in their superior lexical arsenal to make a point :)
(In class of civilisation, I was referring to the Kardashev, crude but later much refined, classification).

You either don't understand what certain laws in this Universe actually mean and apply, or you're just resorting again to sophism mixed with occasional swearwords and insults. Q.E.D again.
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Taylor

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Re: Searching for gravitational waves is like searching for alien intelligence

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Taylor wrote:





Quote:

lehelvandor wrote:
We can't "mystify" other civilisations' otherwise possible huge differences by throwing out what so far is empirically demonstrated and applicable in all observed range of the Universe (and we are looking for something that may live inside that range).





Thanks for this, despite virtually anything being possible, mystification obfuscates a common sense, institutional approach for ET.
Ant:
That's nonsense, of course, as no one is trying to mystify anything.
Proposing the idea of mystifying an ETI was to me just a caution not to get to far away from known physical laws. We've no overwhelming reason to fear or think that ETI lives in some warped universe or would possess technologies out of scope of ours is there? It just seems to me that an ETI must be subject to the same or similar limitations as humans. Least ways that's how I took Lehel's comment.
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Re: Searching for gravitational waves is like searching for alien intelligence

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I think the key thing to remember is that the scientists involved acknowledge there is nothing certain to their work. There are many assumptions involved, and that's understood.

One recognized assumption is that if aliens are far more advanced than us, then they would have a better understanding of what signal to send that we might potentially identify.

It would be similar to how we see ourselves in a million years. We look back at our own history, and see that our first attempts in searching for signals were focused on prime number patterns on the EM spectrum. With that in mind, we send out signals similar to that, but also including other signals that newly technological ETI's might potentially be searching for.

It's like a baby opening its eyes for the first time. It has no way to know what it will receive, but parents know what to send. Sort of a sloppy analogy, but if you're clever you can see the carry-over.
In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and has been widely regarded as a bad move.” - Douglas Adams
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Taylor

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Re: Searching for gravitational waves is like searching for alien intelligence

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Interbane wrote:
I think the key thing to remember is that the scientists involved acknowledge there is nothing certain to their work. There are many assumptions involved, and that's understood.

One recognized assumption is that if aliens are far more advanced than us, then they would have a better understanding of what signal to send that we might potentially identify.
I can appreciate the need for assumption, I would liken it more to a need of imagining possibilities, a creative need on their part as well as ours.
It would help if they understood what we may lack in understanding, but can assumption be carried to far?

I suppose all it requires is SETI receiving a recognized alien signal, and there would be a good idea of ETI technology, I'd be a sham if ET had to dumb things down just to talk with us.
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Re: Searching for gravitational waves is like searching for alien intelligence

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Taylor wrote:ETI must be subject to the same or similar limitations as humans
.

Yes something that was impossible in the entire thread to grasp by eminently superior intellect, clearly.

They, even if they are several classes above us (referring to that class system again), exist in the observable Universe, the one where we are searching.
Therefore there are a number of laws (irrespective of their names, how they were ascertained by us and what science WE built around them) that are at work in that entire observable Universe. But this was called homocentric by some, which is undescribably silly.

If I turn it around with the same basic logic that was consistently violated by the superior objective intellect that told all of us this is just dumb:

For a moment, let's assume there are such e.t.i. that somehow managed to operate outside those laws. Let's, without even doing reduction ad absurdum.

Now this is ever so slightly different from what was asserted by some, i.e. all e.t.i. operate outside those laws therefore there is essentially zero chance for us to (possibly, maybe, eventually) observe any of them.

Again just "painful"(ly obvious) but even this consistently fails to be grasped by some while they insult everybody (or at best, it is considered subjective personal logic - but that's already in the comedy category).
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Re: Searching for gravitational waves is like searching for alien intelligence

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Here you go.



In the absence of God, I found Man.
-Guillermo Del Torro

Are you pushing your own short comings on us and safely hating them from a distance?

Is this the virtue of faith? To never change your mind: especially when you should?

Young Earth Creationists take offense at the idea that we have a common heritage with other animals. Why is being the descendant of a mud golem any better?
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Re: Searching for gravitational waves is like searching for alien intelligence

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You do know what this thread was initially about, right?

I'm beating you're thinking the claim was that gravity waves are a lot like a myth about alien intelligence existing.


Am I right??

Go back to sleep.

EDITED

(right about now Johnson is desperately searching for something said about gravity waves will never be detected)
LOL!
Last edited by ant on Thu May 05, 2016 3:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Searching for gravitational waves is like searching for alien intelligence

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naw, I just clicked number 3 on my previously responded threads to see what's rattling around in there.

Among them was this thread which I had heard updates on recently.
Thread says gravitational waves... videos are about gravitational waves... looks applicable!

I didn't re-read the whole thing though, so if this veered off topic my apologies.

You should watch the videos though, they are cool!
In the absence of God, I found Man.
-Guillermo Del Torro

Are you pushing your own short comings on us and safely hating them from a distance?

Is this the virtue of faith? To never change your mind: especially when you should?

Young Earth Creationists take offense at the idea that we have a common heritage with other animals. Why is being the descendant of a mud golem any better?
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Re: Searching for gravitational waves is like searching for alien intelligence

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johnson1010 wrote:naw, I just clicked number 3 on my previously responded threads to see what's rattling around in there.

Among them was this thread which I had heard updates on recently.
Thread says gravitational waves... videos are about gravitational waves... looks applicable!

I didn't re-read the whole thing though, so if this veered off topic my apologies.

You should watch the videos though, they are cool!

Okay - It looked like you were picking on me again, you rascal!
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Re: Searching for gravitational waves is like searching for alien intelligence

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China makes a statement with gigantic, $185-million telescope

...China’s Aperture Spherical Telescope, or FAST, could have the ability to detect alien life, as it searches space for strange objects such as neutral hydrogen, faint pulsars, and low frequency gravitational waves, according to China’s state-run Xinhua News Agency. The telescope, which China hopes is operational by September, will be open to the global scientific community in up to three years.

The magnitude of the $185 million, 500-meter-wide telescope with 4,450 panels attests to the world’s increasing commitment to searching for other life in the galaxy. The discovery that life forms on Earth can survive in the harshest environments, as well as estimates the Milky Way, alone, has thousands of Earth-like planets, has spurred these investments.

http://www.csmonitor.com/Science/2016/0 ... -telescope
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