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Why is God Not More Evident?

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youkrst

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Re: Why is God Not More Evident?

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Flann, i like you so much i don't have the heart to dissect your post :-D you're a top man to be sure :yes:

although re-reading it, it's tempting, maybe tomoz :)
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ant

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Re: Why is God Not More Evident?

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Flann, i like you so much i don't have the heart to dissect your post
Actually, the only thing you've been dissecting is yourself in these discussions with your vulgar, cherry-picking cut-n'-paste scholarship, youkrst. Yes, vuglar, as in;

youkrst wrote:
but what if they tell him he can shove his gospel where the son don't shine :-D

what if they refuse point blank to bow the knee to orthodox retards who are as dim as the day is long.
youkrst

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Re: Why is God Not More Evident?

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vulgar schmulgar :-D

it's a valid response to assumed authority.

when someone presents you with a message that requires your submission you may lose your sovereingnty over yourself if you are not careful, and if a little vulgarity saves you some slavery, all well and good.

but Flann isn't one of those guys, if he was he'd have every right to be offended :-D
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Re: Why is God Not More Evident?

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geo wrote:To those who believe God is real and makes his presence known to us, how would our world be different if there was no God? I'm interested.
Hi Geo, Good question.
I suppose for the atheist it would be as it is now,but even that is not certain for a few reasons.Perhaps if there was no God many who now believe in him would not and that would change things.It seems to depend on your perspective and whether such belief is subjective,delusional or real.
I'll just take the Christian God here though other religions may have other answers.
In a way the world not existing is the only real answer to that question, though of course naturalists see no need for an explanatory God.
I think the only question that can be addressed, is how people's belief in their particular God makes the world different to how it might otherwise be.
And that's a mixed bag in itself.
So for Christianity there are negatives such as Crusades,Inquisitions anti-semitism, religious wars, and I'm sure many more things. Whether these can be truly justified as Christian I would dispute, though certainly much evil was done in the name of Christianity.
Considering the difficult question of God as creator and disease, made me consider Christianity's track record in relation to sickness and disease.
Certainly some pronouncements on contraception have done harm in connection with H.I.V. infection in Africa, though again I personally can see no truly Christian basis for such a pronouncement.
Having said that Christianity's record in relation to sickness and disease is pretty good.While the philosophical question of disease and suffering is not easily answered to anyone's satisfaction,the ethical imperatives of Christianity have been practical and real.
That's not to denigrate the important humanitarian work of others who hold no such conviction.
Anyway, here's a brief survey albeit from a Christian source;
http://www.cmf.org.uk/publications/cont ... cle&id=827
Last edited by Flann 5 on Wed Mar 25, 2015 1:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Why is God Not More Evident?

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Flann wrote:Perhaps if there was no God many who now believe in him would not
How would anyone know the difference?
Geo wrote:To those who believe God is real and makes his presence known to us, how would our world be different if there was no God? I'm interested.
I think first of all, we wouldn't be able to detect him. Also, we would start seeing good, innocent people dying for no apparent reason. There would be good and evil in roughly equal measure, since man would be the source rather than a god. People would still believe in many various types of gods, just like they believe in everything under the sun.

Wait a minute...
In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and has been widely regarded as a bad move.” - Douglas Adams
youkrst

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Re: Why is God Not More Evident?

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Flann wrote:Death entered the world through Adam's sin.
this is obvious mythology. here's an old Bassari legend courtesy of the power of myth.

BILL MOYERS: And then there’s the Bassari legend.

JOSEPH CAMPBELL: It’s been tough on serpents, too. “One day Snake said, ‘We too should eat these fruits. Why must we go hungry?’ Antelope said, ‘But we don’t know anything about this fruit.’ Then Man and his wife took some of the fruit and ate it. Unumbotte came down from the sky and asked, ‘Who ate the fruit?’ They answered, ‘We did.’ Unumbotte asked, ‘Who told you that you could eat that fruit?’ They replied, ‘Snake did.’ It’s the same story.

BILL MOYERS: Poor Snake.
Flann wrote:You think that's myth.
it is!
Flann wrote:Jesus and Paul though did not.
here's Paul

Now this may be interpreted allegorically: these women are two covenants. One is from Mount Sinai, bearing children for slavery; she is Hagar.

Or does not the Law also say these things? For it is written in the Law of Moses, "YOU SHALL NOT MUZZLE THE OX WHILE HE IS THRESHING." God is not concerned about oxen, is He? Or is He speaking altogether for our sake? Yes, for our sake it was written, because the plowman ought to plow in hope, and the thresher to thresh in hope of sharing the crops.…

here's Jesus

And He said to them, "I was watching Satan fall from heaven like lightning.

wow, this snake gets around :-D one minute he's talking in the garden the next he's falling from heaven like lightning.
Flann wrote:You think that's myth.
yep, sure do.
Flann wrote:And as you know Christ's incarnation,and death by crucifixion is God's redemptive remedy both for mankind and the fallen universe itself.
this is a tragic misreading of mythology. myth is metaphor and if you read it as anything else you'll get dreadfully confused.
Flann wrote:His nature was not fallen initially but subsequently was.
Flann wrote:Earth itself was cursed by God on account of Adams rebellion and the universe put out of kilter.
Flann wrote:What was original was good and no doubt all these diseases like smallpox could not exist without God.
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Re: Why is God Not More Evident?

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Flann 5 wrote:
youkrst wrote:can i infer that God thought, i'll make this smallpox and i am thinking and purposeful?
I'll put it this way.I don't think the bible is one dimensional here.

Death entered the world through Adam's sin. You think that's myth. Jesus and Paul though did not. And as you know Christ's incarnation,and death by crucifixion is God's redemptive remedy both for mankind and the fallen universe itself. Some will accept this others will not.
Adam's sin brought spiritual and eventually physical death. His nature was not fallen initially but subsequently was. Something changed in his fundamental nature. Earth itself was cursed by God on account of Adams rebellion and the universe put out of kilter.
For all that, I don't see in the bible, a complacency in God with the ruined creation,sickness and death. So he has done something about it which will eventually bring restoration to the universe itself. And meanwhile Christians are not told to just accept these things but work towards alleviating pain and suffering.
I think the guy who discovered the smallpox vaccine, Jenner,was a Christian and Luke a Physician. So I don't know that God was thinking "I'll make this smallpox."
What was original was good and no doubt all these diseases like smallpox could not exist without God.
It seems that something good became bad at least in part.How God brought the physical change about I don't know
So while you think it's all myth,that's my understanding.
Yet the Jewish myth of Eden concluded that it was quite good for man to become as God in having a moral sense.

Would you give up your moral sense, since you think that an evil thing to have?

Regards
DL
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Re: Why is God Not More Evident?

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ant wrote:
Flann, i like you so much i don't have the heart to dissect your post
Actually, the only thing you've been dissecting is yourself in these discussions with your vulgar, cherry-picking cut-n'-paste scholarship, youkrst. Yes, vuglar, as in;

youkrst wrote:
but what if they tell him he can shove his gospel where the son don't shine :-D

what if they refuse point blank to bow the knee to orthodox retards who are as dim as the day is long.
It may not be politically correct but I do not see any lies. Do you?

Regards
DL
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