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Exodus not history?

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youkrst

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Re: Exodus not history?

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please read this Flann

http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Virgin_bir ... enogenesis

excerpt follows
Special conception in other religions

Okay, let's go into a little more detail and try to figure out if a pattern is emerging here. [5]
[edit] Greek mythology

Leda: Leda's father was the Aetolian king Thestius. The story goes that Zeus, the dude with the lightening bolts and thunder clouds, admired Leda very much. So, like any randy god, he took the form of a swan and seduced her. Ew. Anyway, the result of this celestial gettin' down were two eggs. From these eggs hatched Helen of Troy, Clytemnestra, and Castor and Pollux. Technically, this isn't virgin birth since Zeus physically did the deed, but the sentiment is more or less the same, although termed 'miraculous birth.'

Perseus: Son of Danae, who was locked away in a room while a child and impregnated by Zeus (busy fella, that Zeus) in the form of a shower of gold (no, really).

Zeus would later impregnate Alcmene by disguising himself as her husband Amphitryon (grandson of Perseus. Seriously, Zeus had no sense of shame). The child, Heracles, would later perform many great deeds including bringing one person back from the dead. Heracles eventually died painfully as a result of treachery and ascended to godhood. Nope, never heard about anyone like that.

Hephaestus: According to some accounts, the goddess Hera was so annoyed at how Athena had sprung forth from Zeus' head that she conceived Hephaestus without the aid of a man, by force of will alone. Apparently, it didn't go so well, as she threw him off Mount Olympus after seeing his ugly face. Hephaestus is the only Greek god who is lame.

[edit] Hinduism

The idea of a miraculous conception is common in Hindu scripture.

Krishna descended directly into the womb of his mother, Devaki.
Avatars of the god, living in the Human realm descend into human women's wombs, i.e., without intercourse.
Karna: Was the result of Queen Kunti asking the god Surya for a child, without taking Kunti's virginity, just before she married King Pandu.
The Pandavas: Brahmin laid a curse upon King Pandu, telling him not to touch either of his two wives sexually or he'd die. Queen Kunti, ever resourceful, simply asked the other gods to give her and her co-wife children. The gods gave them the Pandavas.

[edit] Egyptian mythology

The popular idea that Horus was born of a virgin Isis is confounded by the fact that Herodotus records that the Egyptians believed that Isis was impregnated by having intercourse with the spirit of the dead Osiris. However Herodotus also stated this:

"The relation between the Egyptian Isis and the Greek Io was probably this, that Phoenicians in early times had carried to Argos the worship of the moon, under the symbol of a heifer, or a woman with heifer's horns. The symbol itself and the name of lo, which is Coptic for the moon…the origin of it was forgotten, and the invention of the Greek mythologists supplied its place by the legend of an Argive princess, beloved by Jupiter, turned by him into a heifer, and driven through Phoenicia into Egypt, where she became the goddess Isis."[6]

A century earlier Aeschylus in his Greek tragedy Prometheus Bound stated "Again and again in the night, visions would appear to me (Io) in my room and entice me with seductive words: "O blessed maiden, why do you remain a virgin for so long when it is possible for you to achieve the greatest of marriages?" It is important here to remember that Ancient Greek did not have a separate word for virginity, the concept was intrinsically connected with the unmarried woman, the parthenos.

"my divinity is adored throughout all the world in divers manners, in variable customs and in many names, for the Phrygians call me the mother of the Gods: the Athenians, Minerva: the Cyprians, Venus: the Candians, Diana: the Sicilians, Proserpina: the Eleusians, Ceres: some Juno, others Bellona, other Hecate: and principally the Ethiopians which dwell in the Orient, and the Egyptians which are excellent in all kind of ancient doctrine, and by their proper ceremonies accustom to worship me, do call me Queen Isis." (Apuleius (2nd century CE) The Golden Ass or Metamorphoses)

Hestia, Athena, Artemis and Hecate were all virgin goddesses in Greek mythology.

"In the most remote age it appears that Osiris, Isis, Horus, and Set were all independent and unconnected deities, belonging probably to different tribes. Isis was a virgin goddess at Buto in the Delta, Horus came to be worshiped with her,..."[7]

So in reality, depending on the group, Isis was worshiped as a virgin goddess before the time of Christ.
oh no, no parallels here say the christians :slap:

i wonder why :mrgreen:

sorry as y'all prolly know i have the irish temper, is this a private fight or can anyone join in?

it's not that i don't love and respect people, it's because i do that i get so frustrated, for god's sake read a fooking book or two and get a clue.

We have nothing to lose but our ignorance.

and god bless anyone who has the patience to endure me.
youkrst

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Re: Exodus not history?

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i'm off to read some D.M. Murdock

i have nothing to lose but my ignorance. :-D

gotta chill. :-D

PS: i just read the first few bits of the first bit of the preface and i'm sharper already!

i will return after further edification from someone who unlike me, really knows their stuff like a boss :)

PS: wow! this book rocks the block! no wonder DMM is a target!

but one of the great things about this treasure trove of a book is that even if you were totally disinterested in the subject yet still you would love it, it's choc full of fascinating insights into antiquity.
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Re: Exodus not history?

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The argument against mythic parallels is almost always similar to this. When there is a claimed parallel, the apologist points out a difference between the stories. As if the difference means there isn't also a parallel.

Mythicist: X is similar to Y in Z respect.
Theist: No, because X is dissimilar to Y in C respect.
Mythicist: I'm talking about Z.
Theist: No, we're talking about X and Y.
endless tangent ensues....
In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and has been widely regarded as a bad move.” - Douglas Adams
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