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Is God the epitome of both good and evil?

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Movie Nerd
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Re: Is God the epitome of both good and evil?

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Flann 5 wrote:
Movie Nerd wrote:Whether Jesus "chose" to do it or not, he was born into the world for the explicit purpose of dying for our sins. If he "chose" not to do it, then he wouldn't be what he was supposed to be. Which makes it not so much a free choice.
No, I don't think so Nerd.
Had he chosen not to do it he would not have come into the world in the first place. The fact that he did does not show that he had no choice in the matter.
Here's how Paul puts it. "Christ Jesus who being in the form of God,did not consider it robbery to be equal with God,but made himself of no reputation,taking the form of a bondservant,and coming in the likeness of men.
And being found in appearance as a man, He humbled himself and became obedient to the point of death,even the death of the cross." Phil. 2;5-8.
In Christian theology Christ is God co-equal with the Father and Holy Spirit. Our sins are offenses against God and it is God himself in the incarnate Christ who voluntarily takes the just judgement for sins.
This is an act of grace and mercy by God,and salvation is freely offered to all on this basis.
Some feign crocodile tears at the supposed injustice done to Christ while finding fault with him and his teachings in every way they think they can.
So Bishop complains about the duration of punishment for sins whilst rejecting the gracious offer of forgiveness of sins on the just basis of atonement.How can you complain about the punishment of your sins at all, if you reject what God has done to provide a just basis for and free offer of forgiveness?
If you choose justice outside of atonement then that is what you will get.
But remember the Garden of Gathsemene, where Jeses was sweating blood, and as he prayed he had a moment where he asked to "have this cup taken from me." He recants this and says to let thew will of the Father be done, but still there is that moment where he questions the mission on which he was sent. So my argument still stands.

Also, when he fasted for forty days, he was tempted three times by Satan. All three times he refused to cave, but the very fact that he was being tempted in the first place shows that there was some small amount of doubt as to whether he'd actually go through with it. Remember, Jesus was fully God and fully man; we have to question how much influence the man side had at times over the God side. It's a fair question.
Last edited by Movie Nerd on Thu Nov 27, 2014 8:34 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Is God the epitome of both good and evil?

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Gnostic Bishop wrote:
Movie Nerd wrote:
Gnostic Bishop wrote: Eloquent perfection.

As a rough speaking Frenchman, I would love to have your tongue and temperament.

You seem to understand the concept I sell quite accurately and to my shame can express it better than I can. Full respect to you on this.

Regards
DL
Thanks mate. It was no big deal; I personally understood what you were saying just fine, and I think many other people would have understood you as well. I think Flann might have nitpicked for whatever reason, but I guess we all stumble over some things so I won't bash him on it too hard.
Thanks. I trust your judgement.

I think I might know a small bit of the psychology of why he nit pick.

This author shows it and other debate anomalies that you are likely aware of but let me put it here in case Flann 5 wants to learn why he likely does what he does.

Regards
DL
I'm afraid I don't fully get why he's nitpicking. I suppose he's just looking for clarification like we all are on various points. In doing so he might be a bit meticulious. Which isn't necessarily a bad thing.
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Re: Is God the epitome of both good and evil?

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danimorg62 wrote:Do we have to have a label? Do the majority of people have a label? If you are not a Theist, then maybe Agnostic? Or Atheist? Or Anti-theist? Do you know anyone who is just... nothing?

I have a friend who was raised without religion. She went to a public school, did not go to church, doesn't know much about any holy book or the rites and rituals associated with religion. She doesn't give much thought to a god or anything supernatural. I asked her what she believes and she answered, "I don't have beliefs."

If I pose the question, "Is God the epitome of both good and evil?" to her, I imagine her answer will be something like, "Huh?" or "I have no idea." and I just think... she's brilliant.
Huh?
No ideas. Huh?
Huh is good. Huh.
I have no ideas is good. Huh?

HHHmmmmmmmmmmm. Huh?

Oh. About labels.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qLm3HMG8IhM

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DL
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Re: Is God the epitome of both good and evil?

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Gnostic Bishop wrote:
danimorg62 wrote:Do we have to have a label? Do the majority of people have a label? If you are not a Theist, then maybe Agnostic? Or Atheist? Or Anti-theist? Do you know anyone who is just... nothing?

I have a friend who was raised without religion. She went to a public school, did not go to church, doesn't know much about any holy book or the rites and rituals associated with religion. She doesn't give much thought to a god or anything supernatural. I asked her what she believes and she answered, "I don't have beliefs."

If I pose the question, "Is God the epitome of both good and evil?" to her, I imagine her answer will be something like, "Huh?" or "I have no idea." and I just think... she's brilliant.
Huh?
No ideas. Huh?
Huh is good. Huh.
I have no ideas is good. Huh?

HHHmmmmmmmmmmm. Huh?

Oh. About labels.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qLm3HMG8IhM

Regards
DL
If she has no beliefs on the matter, or is indifferent, then she essentially falls under atheist by default, I would think. She's the sort who doesn't even think about it, but it still looks like she's an atheist.

Gnostic, I'm afraid I don't understand what you were saying. May I ask for clarification?
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Re: Is God the epitome of both good and evil?

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Movie Nerd wrote:[

Thanks mate. It was no big deal; I personally understood what you were saying just fine, and I think many other people would have understood you as well. I think Flann might have nitpicked for whatever reason, but I guess we all stumble over some things so I won't bash him on it too hard.
Thanks. I trust your judgement.

I think I might know a small bit of the psychology of why he nit pick.

This author shows it and other debate anomalies that you are likely aware of but let me put it here in case Flann 5 wants to learn why he likely does what he does.

Regards
DL[/quote]

I'm afraid I don't fully get why he's nitpicking. I suppose he's just looking for clarification like we all are on various points. In doing so he might be a bit meticulious. Which isn't necessarily a bad thing.[/quote]

True. I guess it depend on how prickly.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XXi_ldNRNtM#t=134

Regards
DL
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Re: Is God the epitome of both good and evil?

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Movie Nerd wrote:
Gnostic Bishop wrote:
danimorg62 wrote:Do we have to have a label? Do the majority of people have a label? If you are not a Theist, then maybe Agnostic? Or Atheist? Or Anti-theist? Do you know anyone who is just... nothing?

I have a friend who was raised without religion. She went to a public school, did not go to church, doesn't know much about any holy book or the rites and rituals associated with religion. She doesn't give much thought to a god or anything supernatural. I asked her what she believes and she answered, "I don't have beliefs."

If I pose the question, "Is God the epitome of both good and evil?" to her, I imagine her answer will be something like, "Huh?" or "I have no idea." and I just think... she's brilliant.
Huh?
No ideas. Huh?
Huh is good. Huh.
I have no ideas is good. Huh?

HHHmmmmmmmmmmm. Huh?

Oh. About labels.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qLm3HMG8IhM

Regards
DL
If she has no beliefs on the matter, or is indifferent, then she essentially falls under atheist by default, I would think. She's the sort who doesn't even think about it, but it still looks like she's an atheist.

Gnostic, I'm afraid I don't understand what you were saying. May I ask for clarification?
I do not care about beliefs of others.

I just do not like seeing people put their minds in limbo. Use Huh and I have no idea.

Regards
DL
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Re: Is God the epitome of both good and evil?

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Gnostic Bishop wrote:I do not care about beliefs of others.

I just do not like seeing people put their minds in limbo. Use Huh and I have no idea.

Regards
DL
It's fine Gnostic. The first part of my post was in reference to what the first person had posted. When i asked you for clarification, it was for your response.

I can see why you wouldn't care about others' beliefs, but on a certain level the beliefs of others can affect you, so that's why we always need to question...
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Re: Is God the epitome of both good and evil?

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:-D i often hear people say "thank God it's Friday" and i think, "who do you curse for monday morning?" :lol:

if they replied "The Devil, of course!" then i would ask, "and who do we have to thank for Him?" :lol:

as Robert Price occasionally remarks "Oh what a tangled web we weave when first we practice to believe"

i always remember that Sting lyric
Poets, priests and politicians
Have words to thank for their positions
Words that scream for your submission
And no one's jamming their transmission
'Cos when their eloquence escapes you
Their logic ties you up and rapes you
:-D

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Re: Is God the epitome of both good and evil?

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Flann wrote:In Christian theology Christ is God co-equal with the Father and Holy Spirit. Our sins are offenses against God and it is God himself in the incarnate Christ who voluntarily takes the just judgement for sins.
This is an act of grace and mercy by God,and salvation is freely offered to all on this basis.
always read the fine print :)
Jesus wrote:“If anyone comes to Me, and does not hate his own father and mother and wife and children and brothers and sisters, yes, and even his own life, he cannot be My disciple.
Jesus wrote:“So then, none of you can be My disciple who does not give up all his own possessions.
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if only the guy had an Accord :wink:
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Re: Is God the epitome of both good and evil?

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Gnostic Bishop wrote: I do not care about beliefs of others.

I just do not like seeing people put their minds in limbo. Use Huh and I have no idea.

Regards
DL
I don't think her mind is in limbo, really. She doesn't get into it with me, but she doesn't have a blank stare. She also doesn't wave her hand shushing me away or roll her eyes or anything, she just doesn't get into it with me. How many people have no position on the matter? I'd be surprised if she never pondered the meaning of life, how and why it began and ends - she must. She is in her 70s and she seems clear headed enough. It's just that she has no... intention. Most people have intentions... to sway, to enlighten, to learn. Most people, when the subject of religion comes up, reveal very early on in the conversation what their position is... you learn (you can tell) almost immediately. Believers don't get into the discussion looking to change their minds, to learn, to be enlightened... they get into the discussion with the intention on remaining believers. And if they are not believers, they don't discuss religion hoping to become believers. The rest - those sitting on the fence - are usually trying to figure out what they intend to believe. It's refreshing to be around someone with no intentions.
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