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Dawkins/Harris - Anti-theists, Not Atheists

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DWill

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Re: Dawkins/Harris - Anti-theists, Not Atheists

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Not that controversial, in my view. Dawkins, Harris, Hitchens, and others have indeed spoken often as anti-theists. Other atheists aren't so concerned with hammering the other side. It's not automatically bad to be anti-theist; we're just trying to establish a distinction within a group that doesn't believe in God.
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Re: Dawkins/Harris - Anti-theists, Not Atheists

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geo wrote:I like the term "Neo Atheist" better because it's closer to "Neo Nazi." And from there you can go to "subhuman."
That's an unfair comparison. Neo nazis are racists trying to establish Hitler's version of a master race. Neo Atheists, as I understand it, are just this generation of people who don't believe in God. How can you lump the two groups together?
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Re: Dawkins/Harris - Anti-theists, Not Atheists

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ant wrote:I'm not in agreement with you that Dawkins represents reality. We'd have to know more about him and what other beliefs he holds and then match those up with reality.

And I'm not quite sure there's been a scientific study that's determined conclusively what the nature of reality actually is, objectively. So we might not have anything to compare Dawkins' representation of reality too.

Not yet, anyway.

Correction: Dawkins doesn't represent atheists - he's props himself up on a pedestal occasionally to act as a representative of atheism, and advises people in common to seek out religious people and "mock them. ridicule them."
Books by Dawkins entitled THE GOD DELUSION and THE BLIND WATCHMAKER give an excellent insight into what it is that he believes as far as his form of anti-theism. He is also an evolutionary biologist, and he's written extensively on that area of science. So it's not hard to know what he believes.

I'm not sure about the study of the nature of reality on a philosophical level, so i can't speak to that point. But I will say that physicists such as Neil DeGrasse Tyson have written various books which can explain how our universe actually works on a natural level, which goes a long way to explain about our reality within the context of our universe. So there's another writer to read up on.

As fard as Dawkins propping himself up on a pedestal and seeking theists out to mock them, I would call that fair game. Look at the number of theists who openly attack evolution and theism in Christian schools, churches, and even on Fox News.

I have a video clip from YouTube, where the YouTube atheist commentator breaks down some footage from the Glenn Beck Show, which shows what I was just talking about:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cMwZ76QB7uk

I would have to look over my materials again if anything needs clarification, but I would be more than happy to clarify if need be. The point is this: We've had generations of theists mocking atheists, and creationist mocking evolutionists (if that's a word), so now that evidence is swinging the game in the athiest/evolution believer's favor it looks like we'll have some growing pains to go through, insofar as the atheists can have a little fun at the theists' expense for a change.
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Re: Dawkins/Harris - Anti-theists, Not Atheists

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DWill wrote:Not that controversial, in my view. Dawkins, Harris, Hitchens, and others have indeed spoken often as anti-theists. Other atheists aren't so concerned with hammering the other side. It's not automatically bad to be anti-theist; we're just trying to establish a distinction within a group that doesn't believe in God.
That's a fair enough motive, mate. I will say, though, as a small side point, that since many theist still wish to distort the truth about what atheists really are and aren't, then the role of anti-theists must be increased. We need to better educate people.
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Re: Dawkins/Harris - Anti-theists, Not Atheists

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Gnostic Christians, at our roots, are anti-religion and anti-government. We dislike anything that inhibits our freedom in any way.

We see any control system as an insult to society as they show that we are too stupid to govern ourselves as individuals.

We also recognize that we are rule following creatures and need rules to survive as they give order to our societies.

So we are not anarchists but do think that the less infringements on our freedom we can live under, the better it is for us as individuals as then it is to us to know in our hearts what is the right way to act as good citizens.

I think democracy was invented to teach citizens how to behave and was not meant to be the total control system that it had turned into. Mind you, we are not living in democracies. We are all living in Oligarchies.

We should thus all hate our insulting control systems, be they political or religious, while recognizing that we must have some type of control system to deal with the less intelligent of us and unfortunately, we are creating many of those.

I really don't get how 40% of people can think this ...:confused:

http://www.livescience.com/46123-many-a ... nists.html

Four in 10 Americans believe God created the Earth and anatomically modern[​IMG] humans, less than 10,000 years ago, according to a new Gallup poll.

About half of Americans believe humans evolved over millions of years, with most of those people saying that God guided the process. Religious, less educated[​IMG], and older respondents were likelier to espouse a young Earth creationist view — that life was created some 6,000 to 10,000 years ago — according to the poll.

Though the percentage of people who believe in creationism has changed little over the decades, the percentage of people who believe humans evolved without God has more than doubled, and the percentage who believe in God-guided evolution has decreased.

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DL
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Re: Dawkins/Harris - Anti-theists, Not Atheists

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Gnostic Bishop wrote:I think democracy was invented to teach citizens how to behave and was not meant to be the total control system that it had turned into. Mind you, we are not living in democracies. We are all living in Oligarchies.

We should thus all hate our insulting control systems, be they political or religious, while recognizing that we must have some type of control system to deal with the less intelligent of us and unfortunately, we are creating many of those.
Gnosticism is elitist which can easily be seen here, and in other comments elsewhere about the illiterate masses who have not acquired the true Gnosis.
I think Bishop that you try to present your ideas as being tolerant,egalitarian and inclusive which they plainly are not.
So while you chafe at institutionalised control bodies which you advocate hatred of,what control systems do you recommend to "deal with the less intelligent of us."
And do the "less intelligent" get to vote on your proposals?
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Re: Dawkins/Harris - Anti-theists, Not Atheists

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GB wrote:We should thus all hate our insulting control systems, be they political or religious, while recognizing that we must have some type of control system to deal with the less intelligent of us and unfortunately, we are creating many of those.
What do we do with the highly intelligent serial killers?
In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and has been widely regarded as a bad move.” - Douglas Adams
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Re: Dawkins/Harris - Anti-theists, Not Atheists

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Interbane wrote:What do we do with the highly intelligent serial killers?
It seems that historically some who might fit this description have succeeded in gaining absolute power in some countries.

Whether people like Hitler or Stalin were highly intelligent is debatable but I suppose they were at least cunning.
It reminds me of a quote from a Leonard Cohen album cover; "They locked up a man who wanted to rule the world.The fools!,they locked up the wrong man."
I think criticisms of political and religious systems can be valid and it's difficult it seems to get a perfect system of governance due to human propensities towards self interest and powerful lobbies etc.
Religious extremism is a real problem too, so I don't completely discount all of what Bishop is saying.
Last edited by Flann 5 on Tue Dec 16, 2014 2:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Dawkins/Harris - Anti-theists, Not Atheists

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Flann 5 wrote:
Gnostic Bishop wrote:I think democracy was invented to teach citizens how to behave and was not meant to be the total control system that it had turned into. Mind you, we are not living in democracies. We are all living in Oligarchies.

We should thus all hate our insulting control systems, be they political or religious, while recognizing that we must have some type of control system to deal with the less intelligent of us and unfortunately, we are creating many of those.
Gnosticism is elitist which can easily be seen here, and in other comments elsewhere about the illiterate masses who have not acquired the true Gnosis.
I think Bishop that you try to present your ideas as being tolerant,egalitarian and inclusive which they plainly are not.
So while you chafe at institutionalised control bodies which you advocate hatred of,what control systems do you recommend to "deal with the less intelligent of us."
And do the "less intelligent" get to vote on your proposals?
Absolutely.

I really don't get how 40% of people can think this ...:confused:

http://www.livescience.com/46123-many-a ... nists.html

Four in 10 Americans believe God created the Earth and anatomically modern[IMG] humans, less than 10,000 years ago, according to a new Gallup poll.

About half of Americans believe humans evolved over millions of years, with most of those people saying that God guided the process. Religious, less educated[IMG], and older respondents were likelier to espouse a young Earth creationist view — that life was created some 6,000 to 10,000 years ago — according to the poll.

As to being elitist. I guess that in a way I am as I look for an ideal man to elevate to the head of the Divine Council and dare to think that I can judge that man on my own.

If you cannot be elitist in that way then you are not much of a man and have likely settled for an absentee God who is not worth spit.

All the rest of us Gods would then have a decent God to follow.

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DL
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Re: Dawkins/Harris - Anti-theists, Not Atheists

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Interbane wrote:
GB wrote:We should thus all hate our insulting control systems, be they political or religious, while recognizing that we must have some type of control system to deal with the less intelligent of us and unfortunately, we are creating many of those.
What do we do with the highly intelligent serial killers?
Be they intelligent or not, all murderers should be jailed.

Regards
DL
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