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Why Do So Many Have Trouble Believing In Evolution?

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ant

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Re: Why Do So Many Have Trouble Believing In Evolution?

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The mood is already light in my opinion
Your mood is anything but "light" on this matter, Interbane.
You're already on record in a conversation with Flann claiming that life began in a goo of primordial soup.
I guess you meant it was a special kind of soup, and not lifeless.


But we all know that you just grab ideas and reshelve them just as fast to avoid either committing or actually standing for something.

Saying you stand for "proper method" is saying nothing at all.
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Re: Why Do So Many Have Trouble Believing In Evolution?

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“I suppose the reason why we leapt at the Origin of Species [Darwin’s Theory] was that the idea of God interfered with our sexual mores” – Sir Julian Huxley

Huxley, unlike most who ambiguously and unintelligibly mock The Creator, was honest when it came to the source of his hatred for Christianity. Atheists often scoff at the King James Holy Bible and creation because it chaps their back-side and reminds them that there is in fact a much more complex purpose to life and it goes further than personal gain, pride, death, war, sports, porn, infidelity, alcohol and drugs.
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Re: Why Do So Many Have Trouble Believing In Evolution?

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“It is important for the Christian American majority to understand that the Church of Babylon invented the heretical ‘Gap Theory’ to disprove the Biblical six days of creation. The ‘Gap Theory’ provided Satan a window of opportunity to promote the ‘old earth theory’. The ‘Gap Theory’ was created by a Scottish theologian named Thomas Chalmers in 1814 who coincidently was a Satanic Freemason. Chalmers heretical ‘Gap Theory’ is responsible for deceiving millions of Christians into accepting Charles Darwin’s 1859 theory of evolution just 45 years later. A theory which has always been defective in logic and devoid of proof. Twenty-Nine years prior to Darwin’s theory Darwin was inspired by a book titled ‘Principles of Geology’ to leave the Christian Church and embrace atheism. Principles of Geology was written in 1830 by a Scottish lawyer and Church of Babylon member named Sir Charles Lyell whose stated goal was to destroy Christianity. Lyell’s book was inspired by another Church of Babylon member named Hutton who wrote ‘Theory of the Earth’ in 1795. Hutton’s 1795 book has deceived millions of Christians into doubting the earth is 6,000 years old. Lyell’s 1830 book has made people doubt the flood and Darwin’s 1859 book has made people doubt The Creator [God]. That led directly to the rise of Communism, Socialism, Nazism and the New World Order.” – Scottish American Author, Paul Boggs, AMERIKA: The Re-Mastered Christian Majority, p.232 www.silvanuspublishing.com
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Re: Why Do So Many Have Trouble Believing In Evolution?

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Silvanus Publishing wrote:“I suppose the reason why we leapt at the Origin of Species [Darwin’s Theory] was that the idea of God interfered with our sexual mores” – Sir Julian Huxley

Huxley, unlike most who ambiguously and unintelligibly mock The Creator, was honest when it came to the source of his hatred for Christianity

this is a good point and I generally agree with what you've said here.

Christianity and its recognition of an ultimate authority is what western liberalism detests the most.
It's a rebellion against any authority that would dare cast judgment on a person's desire to relativise morality.

Huxley was indeed being honest, but in all fairness, was not speaking on behalf of all atheists.

Atheism has over the years been successful at redefining itself so as not to be identified as a religion.
It's actually reinvented itself brilliantly so as to avoid the separation of church and state fiat in order to gain political influence.
In it's beginnings it was nearly entirely definable as a religion.
In relation to this, its history is fascinating.

Unfortunately, its stratagem has totally diluted and deceived its modern day base into believing its not an ideological movement.
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Re: Why Do So Many Have Trouble Believing In Evolution?

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ant wrote:You're already on record in a conversation with Flann claiming that life began in a goo of primordial soup.
I guess you meant it was a special kind of soup, and not lifeless.
Like a bunch of magnetic legos bouncing around together, the proto-life forms came together from lifeless components in the primordial soup. On record again!
Saying you stand for "proper method" is saying nothing at all.
I'm pretty sure that standing for proper method also means standing for the conclusions arrived at using proper method. What you see as "wishy-washy" is honesty. You want my stance to be certain, it isn't. But I will defend it against the sort of idiocy we see in Silvanus' posts: "Hutton’s 1795 book has deceived millions of Christians into doubting the earth is 6,000 years old."

This sort of delusion is crippling to education in our country. There is a tangible connection here, and I see it and fight for it. I do stand for something ant, and I'll state what I believe quite clearly. I think you stand for something(the integrity of science perhaps), but you never clearly state what you believe.
Silvanus wrote:“It is important for the Christian American majority to understand that the Church of Babylon invented the heretical ‘Gap Theory’ to disprove the Biblical six days of creation.


Disprove? Are you implying anything regarding the bible's creation tale has been proven? A story written by men and you can't even trace the text back to the originals, let alone show any sort of divine inspiration.
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Re: Why Do So Many Have Trouble Believing In Evolution?

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Q: If evolution and ‘billions of years’ be true… How do you explain the mention of Dinosaurs in: (i) The 1611 King James Holy Bible (ii) cave drawings (iii) ancient oral traditions, etc. all of which give detailed accounts of interactions between man and dinosaurs. Some will argue that The Holy Bible doesn’t mention the word dinosaur, and that’s true, because they weren’t called dinosaurs until 1841, that’s when founder of the Natural History Museum in London England [Richard Owen] named them “Dinosaurs”, before that they were called Dragons and Dragons are mentioned several times throughout The Holy Bible. It’s noteworthy to mention that when Richard Owen constructed his Natural History Museum he etched in stone over its entry the words “Dedicated To The Glory of God”. The author of The Holy Bible knew Satan would try and use Dragons [Dinosaurs] as a way to deceive Christians away from The Father and so He placed inside The Holy Bible the description of an animal He named “Behemoth”. The 1611 King James Holy Bible tells us:

“Behold now behemoth, which I made with thee; he eateth grass as an ox. Lo now, his strength is in his loins, and his force is in the navel of his belly. He moveth his tail like a cedar: the sinews of his stones are wrapped together. His bones are as strong pieces of brass; his bones are like bars of iron.” – Job 40:17

Other than a 100 ton Argentinosaurus what other land animal possesses a tail which resembles that of a cedar tree? There is not one land animal on planet earth, other than Dragons/Dinosaurs, which fit this description. What’s more there is substantial evidence which supports the theory that the creature inside of the ancient story Beowulf (Grendal) was a dinosaur. The tearing off of Grendal’s relatively frail front leg is identical to a Babylonian Cylinder Seal which illustrates a man pulling off the front leg of a dinosaur. Lastly if evolution and ‘billions of years’ be true… How do you explain the recent discovery of dinosaur bones which contained soft pliable dinosaurian tissue complete with blood cells, etc? This fact alone topples the central argument of evolutionists that the world is ‘billions of years old’.

Q: If evolution be true… How do you explain stellar evolution? No one has ever witnessed a star being formed. Science has only witnessed stars blowing up they’re called Nova’s or Super Nova’s.

Q: If evolution be true… Where are the ‘missing links’ a.k.a. ‘transitional forms’? There are none. All of the supposed missing links throughout modern science have been faked or are completely illogical when scrutinized. The most famous of these was ‘The Piltdown Man’ which was a paleoanthropological hoax. What’s more all of the supposed ‘missing links’ connecting man with apes have contained one major flaw… All of the ancient apes used to deceive the uneducated masses have contained two hands, not a set of hands and a set of feet like man. Moreover one of the most anti-creation [Book of Genesis] arguments for evolutionists is that dinosaurs [reptiles] e.g., densely bones, cold blooded, scaly, toothed creations ‘evolved’ into birds e.g., flipped pelvis, hollow boned, feathers, warm blooded. The inconvenient truth however for practitioners of the religion of evolutionism is there zero evidence of a transitional form. For those seeking truths watch ‘Why evolution is stupid’ by Dr. Kent Hovind.

Q: If evolution be true… How does The Conservation of Angular Momentum support stellar evolution? If the ‘Big Bang’ occurred like evolutionists say it did… Why are a number of planets and moons spinning the opposite direction of their fellow planets and moons?
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Re: Why Do So Many Have Trouble Believing In Evolution?

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Silvanus, how about one single question at a time? Is there one you feel really stumps scientists?
Q: If evolution be true… How do you explain stellar evolution? No one has ever witnessed a star being formed. Science has only witnessed stars blowing up they’re called Nova’s or Super Nova’s.
Irrelevant to the discussion of evolution. Biological evolution is what we're discussing here and stars aren't biological entities.
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Re: Why Do So Many Have Trouble Believing In Evolution?

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Other than a 100 ton Argentinosaurus what other land animal possesses a tail which resembles that of a cedar tree?
Which animals have tails that move and sway like the branches of a cedar? Pretty much any large animal with a tail. It doesn't say the tail is LIKE a cedar, just that it MOVETH like one. And what animal has bones of brass and iron? The Rhinoceros arguably has the strongest bone on Earth - it's femur. The sway of it's tail is eerily similar to the swaying of a cedar in the wind. The translation of behemoth includes a rhino. What were you saying this passage referred to? Dinosaurs? How could that possibly be, if the newest dinosaur fossils are millions of years older than the oldest human fossils? Is carbon dating a conspiracy?
If evolution be true… How do you explain stellar evolution?
There's no need to explain stellar evolution. The truth of biological evolution does not rest on it.
Where are the ‘missing links’ a.k.a. ‘transitional forms’? There are none.
There are hundreds if not thousands. Are you an ostrich? Pick any one of these examples and explain why you think it is "illogical" or a hoax.
If evolution be true… How does The Conservation of Angular Momentum support stellar evolution?
Explain how this has anything to do with biological evolution.

If you want to continue the conversation Silvanus, type your replies rather than copy/pasting please.
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Re: Why Do So Many Have Trouble Believing In Evolution?

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If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck, we are justified to infer that it probably is a duck. When ant was politely asked to explain his reasons for his ongoing attacks on science, and his apparent sympathy to creationist junk, he failed to give any clear answer, but simply made rude comments about the questions, or just ignored them.

I have found ant's interventions at booktalk entertaining because he seems to be involved in some sort of genuine although confused struggle to reconcile faith and reason, which I agree is an important and complex philosophical problem.

But ant has it arse-about, wanting to base reason on faith, when the correct method is to base faith on reason. And I disagree with Dexter and Johnson and Interbane on this problem of the role of faith, because I consider faith to be a virtue, and not something to be simply dismissed as false.

Again, I think the ethical question of whether faith is good is at the heart of why so many believers have trouble believing in evolution. Believers in God see comments from Dawkins about faith being a vice, and find that attitude so repugnant that they reject the entire scientific worldview.

So I conclude that ant is a duck, or at least a ducker, in the absence of any evidence whatsoever to the contrary, and his constant ducking of direct questions. It is like ant has creationist friends, and he just can't bear to have anything in print that would distance himself from them.

I see the 'ant' at CosmoQuest has now been banned for a similar attitude to the ant at booktalk. Amazing coincidence in the name and method there, and of course ant did not deny it was him but just falsely accused me of inventing conspiracies.

I watched the evolution video that ant posted from StatedClearly.com and it is excellent, by the way. That looks to be a good site.
Last edited by Robert Tulip on Fri Oct 24, 2014 5:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Why Do So Many Have Trouble Believing In Evolution?

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If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck, we are justified to infer that it is probably a duck.
I agree, even if the duck barks from time to time. :wink:
Robert Tulip wrote:Again, I think the ethical question of whether faith is good is at the heart of why so many believers have trouble believing in evolution. Believers in God see comments from Dawkins about faith being a vice, and find that attitude so repugnant that they reject the entire scientific worldview.
You're saying that people have an emotional connection to the concept of faith, and when that concept is attacked, they feel attacked? Therefore they reject evolution? Perhaps there is some truth to this, but I hope this isn't the line of reasoning you use to conclude that faith is a virtue. I'm sure you see the inherent fallacy.

I think the harsh tones used by atheists is one reason many people reject evolution, absolutely. This is true even if the harsh tone is justified. This is why your tone with ant will never elicit anything but the same. This is why I have always had the utmost respect for DWill. He could say darn near anything without ruffling feathers.

I see some types of faith as beneficial. Faithfulness to a wife, or faith in a hard working boss to steer you in the right direction.

But this is a different concept from epistemological faith. Social faith has a different feel to it. If you say that it is a virtue to have faith in information(a theory/idea/belief), rather than to justify the information, I'd ask why? Why would that be a virtue?

Or are you saying that the process of justification is sometimes impossible or impractical, so we should use faith as a heuristic? Again, I'd ask why? Why not suspend judgement?

Or are you saying that at the fringes of our knowledge, there are concepts too distant to justify, but belief is better than no belief, so we should pick something and have faith in it?
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