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"A movement needs a moral cause beyond glamorizing disbelief"

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ant

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"A movement needs a moral cause beyond glamorizing disbelief"

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I have also asked "What do atheists stand for? And what is it that they believe?"

"Movement atheism"

http://www.salon.com/2014/10/04/atheism ... disbelief/

Emphasis mine:

For those atheists whose non-belief comes as naturally as breathing, movement atheism is indeed an odd thing. Nevertheless, it is a thing. The atheist movement comprises more than 2,000 groups and organizations in the U.S. today, but the movement, in composition and purpose, has failed to establish a coherent cause outside of validating non-belief, extolling the advancement of science and offering platitudes toward protecting the separation of church and state.

More significantly, movement atheism has failed to articulate an identifiable moral cause, and any progressive movement that chooses to dismiss the great moral challenges of its time will be rightfully dismissed itself. In other words, movement atheism, as it stands today, risks facing its end times, or, worse, becoming a passing fad.

In an interview for Salon, Chris Hedges was once asked for his opinion on Christopher Hitchens. “I think he’s completely amoral. I think he doesn’t have a moral core. I think he doesn’t believe anything. What’s good for Christopher Hitchens is about as moral as he gets,” answered Hedges.

While I don’t necessarily agree with Hedges’ sentiment, and it must be said that religion is no more moral than the absence of it, his reply speaks to the failure of movement atheism to broaden its appeal beyond predominantly upwardly middle-class white males. “If mainstream freethought and humanism continue to reflect the narrow cultural interests of white elites who have disposable income to go to conferences then the secular movement is destined to remain marginal and insular,” writes Sikivu Hutchinson.

Additionally, black american atheists have voiced their concern about atheism and its dominant constituents
While atheists generally consider themselves an accepting people, black atheists have decided their concerns are not being reasonably heard. They met at the Moving Social Justice conference to share and promote their own ideas and goals for society. Disappointed with the minority representation at most atheist gatherings, leaders in the black atheists community decided to hold their own convention to focus on issues that they felt were not sufficiently represented in the white dominated mainstream atheism.
Shockingly (but not really) the black community has turned to religious leaders for help:
Surprisingly, some speakers included religious leaders for multiple significant reasons. Both religious and nonreligious groups are fighting for equality among the population, and the organizers of the conference stated that their communities simply do not maintain enough financial resources to branch out on their own, so black atheists must collaborate with religiously affiliated institutions to help collect the necessary funding for such events.
http://www.worldreligionnews.com/religi ... ing-issues


And last, but certainly not least, I've mentioned before the problem that women have with the exclusivity and chauvinism of movement atheism:

Emphasis mine:
Sam Harris, a prominent atheist author who has previously been criticized for his knee-jerk Islamophobic tendencies, recently came under fire when he added women to the category of people he makes thoughtless generalizations about. Washington Post religion reporter Michelle Boorstein interviewed Harris, and during the interview she asked him why most atheists are male. “There’s something about that critical posture that is to some degree instrinsically male and more attractive to guys than to women.” He added, “The atheist variable just has this— it doesn’t obviously have this nurturing, coherence-building extra estrogen vibe that you would want by default if you wanted to attract as many women as men.”
http://www.salon.com/2014/10/03/new_ath ... s_partner/


So, Mr. Harris, atheism simply doesn't have enough estrogen for women, eh?

What an idiotic thing to say.


The new atheism movement seems completely hollow.
It has been in circulation for 10+ years (after 911).
Atheism in society has always been an uninviting group that eventually alienates its members and itself from culture.

Promoting disbelief with nothing to offer in turn, and neglecting people that are "different" can never amount to anything practical.
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Re: "A movement needs a moral cause beyond glamorizing disbelief"

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This is just more clickbait from Salon, that's what they do.
In an interview for Salon, Chris Hedges was once asked for his opinion on Christopher Hitchens. “I think he’s completely amoral. I think he doesn’t have a moral core. I think he doesn’t believe anything. What’s good for Christopher Hitchens is about as moral as he gets,” answered Hedges.
This is an idiotic insult.

I have no interest in "movement atheism." Never been to an atheist conference or gathering or church or whatever, probably never will. Most atheists are the same. "New atheism" is not even really a thing, it's just a few authors that people like to lump together in order to insult them.
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Re: "A movement needs a moral cause beyond glamorizing disbelief"

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Dexter wrote:This is just more clickbait from Salon, that's what they do.
In an interview for Salon, Chris Hedges was once asked for his opinion on Christopher Hitchens. “I think he’s completely amoral. I think he doesn’t have a moral core. I think he doesn’t believe anything. What’s good for Christopher Hitchens is about as moral as he gets,” answered Hedges.
This is an idiotic insult.

I have no interest in "movement atheism." Never been to an atheist conference or gathering or church or whatever, probably never will. Most atheists are the same. "New atheism" is not even really a thing, it's just a few authors that people like to lump together in order to insult them.
The vast majority of atheists aren't atheist activists. What has Hitchens actually done to be judged amoral? How does his life differ from Chris Hedges (whoever he is) in terms of actions and deeds? Because that's what determines morality, not belief in God.
-Geo
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Re: "A movement needs a moral cause beyond glamorizing disbelief"

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From the linked salon article: "Google any combination of the following key words- "atheist for the environment"," atheist for economic equality", "atheist for racial and gender equality", "atheist for ending poverty", " atheist for world peace", " atheist against resource motivated wars", etc. and you come up with nothing. ( I haven't tested this statement ) in other words the some 2000 atheist groups and organizations in this country are almost silent on the moral issues that affect Americans the most"

But aren't these issues more a social dilemma than a moral cause?

Dexter! trying to pin Ant down on some point of evolution or creation is beside Ants point.

Ants agenda is social acceptance, least ways that's what I infer from the myriad Ant posts.

Ants ambiguity is somehow the clue to Ants genius, reading between the lines I see someone who is screaming defiance at a world of hate.

:up: Ant
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Re: "A movement needs a moral cause beyond glamorizing disbelief"

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geo wrote:
Dexter wrote:This is just more clickbait from Salon, that's what they do.
In an interview for Salon, Chris Hedges was once asked for his opinion on Christopher Hitchens. “I think he’s completely amoral. I think he doesn’t have a moral core. I think he doesn’t believe anything. What’s good for Christopher Hitchens is about as moral as he gets,” answered Hedges.
This is an idiotic insult.

I have no interest in "movement atheism." Never been to an atheist conference or gathering or church or whatever, probably never will. Most atheists are the same. "New atheism" is not even really a thing, it's just a few authors that people like to lump together in order to insult them.
The vast majority of atheists aren't atheist activists. What has Hitchens actually done to be judged amoral? How does his life differ from Chris Hedges (whoever he is) in terms of actions and deeds? Because that's what determines morality, not belief in God.
Actually, thats not it at all.

What ultimately amounts to Amorality is to dedicate yourself to being an active critic of an institution that although not perfect has at the very least committed itself to something that has contributed to the greater good - flaws and all.

active atheism can say no such thing.
It criticizes and at the same time exonerates itself from responsibility of any kind because it is committed to nothing other than itself.
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Re: "A movement needs a moral cause beyond glamorizing disbelief"

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Dexter wrote:This is just more clickbait from Salon, that's what they do.
In an interview for Salon, Chris Hedges was once asked for his opinion on Christopher Hitchens. “I think he’s completely amoral. I think he doesn’t have a moral core. I think he doesn’t believe anything. What’s good for Christopher Hitchens is about as moral as he gets,” answered Hedges.
This is an idiotic insult.

I have no interest in "movement atheism." Never been to an atheist conference or gathering or church or whatever, probably never will. Most atheists are the same. "New atheism" is not even really a thing, it's just a few authors that people like to lump together in order to insult them.
Youve never been to an atheist conference or gathering and yet are able to say "most atheists are the same"

Thanks for sharing that experience.
It says a lot.

And yes, of course, "new atheism is not really a thing"
Just like something is really nothing when you realize something came from nothing.

All this talk of new atheism is just an illusion.

Now back to our critical analysis of everything else that disagrees with non belief.

Lovely
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Re: "A movement needs a moral cause beyond glamorizing disbelief"

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And lets not forget about the women and african americans who express their grievances about an exclusive atheistic community that discriminates against them are really delusional because these alleged activist atheists really dont exist!

It's funny how rational "non belief" can fool everyone into thinking its a movement.

Oh those tricky non believers! Theyre like ghosts!!
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Re: "A movement needs a moral cause beyond glamorizing disbelief"

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Looking back, New Atheism was at its best when it provided a clear defense of reason against the many fundamentalisms that only look backward. At its worst, however, it dismissed all experiences of "spirituality" as worthless, pudding-headed confusion
.

Precisely.

Of course there are millions of religious people who utterly condemn fundamentalism both religious and non religious.

But new atheism in its early days, post 911, attacked religion and spirituality broadly as delusional and the stuff of fairy tales.

and now more than 10 years later it is trying to salvage the word "spirituality" by re defining it as " spiritual but not religious" because it can not provide meaning in people's lives.

As Ive said before, this brand of atheism is ultimately self defeating.

http://www.npr.org/blogs/13.7/2014/10/2 ... n-anything


People do not want to disown their spirituality, experienced within the context of their religion, in order to embrace "proper method" or darwinism, or Scientism. that is all that new atheism has to offer in return.

So now men like Harris are writing about how fulfilling life can be when you think about just how good a delusion can be when you realize it's your neurons that are making you feel metaphysically whole.

I cant wait for the day neurology completely replaces religion.
I already feel altruistic just thinking about it.

Who will be the first to accuse me of being anti science?

:slap:
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Re: "A movement needs a moral cause beyond glamorizing disbelief"

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ant wrote:
Youve never been to an atheist conference or gathering and yet are able to say "most atheists are the same"

Thanks for sharing that experience.
It says a lot.
Yes, it's called simple math. Check the demographics on atheism. Check the number of people who go to atheist conferences.

I know you really want to make sweeping statements about atheists. But you fail. Again.
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Re: "A movement needs a moral cause beyond glamorizing disbelief"

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ant wrote:Actually, thats not it at all.

What ultimately amounts to Amorality is to dedicate yourself to being an active critic of an institution that although not perfect has at the very least committed itself to something that has contributed to the greater good - flaws and all.

active atheism can say no such thing.
It criticizes and at the same time exonerates itself from responsibility of any kind because it is committed to nothing other than itself.
Are you kidding me? So I must be amoral too because I regularly criticize the Catholic Church, pointing out its hypocrisies, its institutionalized contempt of women and gays, its long history of violence and bigotry, turning the other cheek, as it were, while children are being sexually abused—all in the name of God and heaven and beliefs that fall apart under any kind of rational scrutiny.

The people who speak out against such stupidity are amoral?

Hey, I also criticize the kinds of institutionalized sports that turns the other way when you children are sodomized. That makes me amoral too!

Religion is pornography for the soul, as Robyn Hitchcock once said.

"I mean, it's very dangerous to mock people's beliefs because you can be tortured and destroyed by other human beings. Very seldom do divine forces actually wreak their vengeance on you, but it's very dangerous to be an infidel in someone's eyes. I believe very firmly in God, I mean, in terms of spirituality. I also have an infinite contempt for religion which I think is hijacking people's spirituality for political purposes and I think religion is perilously close to pornography in that respect."
-Geo
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