• In total there is 1 user online :: 0 registered, 0 hidden and 1 guest (based on users active over the past 60 minutes)
    Most users ever online was 742 on Tue Mar 19, 2024 2:59 am

COSMOS - Episode 3

Engage in discussions encompassing themes like cosmology, human evolution, genetic engineering, earth science, climate change, artificial intelligence, psychology, and beyond in this forum.
Forum rules
Do not promote books in this forum. Instead, promote your books in either Authors: Tell us about your FICTION book! or Authors: Tell us about your NON-FICTION book!.

All other Community Rules apply in this and all other forums.
User avatar
ant

1G - SILVER CONTRIBUTOR
BookTalk.org Hall of Fame
Posts: 5935
Joined: Thu Jun 02, 2011 12:04 pm
12
Has thanked: 1371 times
Been thanked: 969 times

Re: COSMOS - Episode 3

Unread post

ive already distinguished between judeo christian monotheism God and a pagan God, that is, one God among many fueding capricious gods.
The rationale being one creator as the primary cause of the cosmos.
The relationship with the judeo christian God is personal not an indifferent one.

I am not promoting the. christian God. You'd need to find a Christian to continue your crusade to save our future by striking down his or her belief.
And yes, you certainly have demonstrated several times you are arrogant enough to do it.
It's not rationality youre promoting, its divisiveness.
As far as the impact on governing the people, Id guess your motives are political and nothing more
I doubt your interest is helping people to die in a better state of mind by promoting anti teapotism and non belief
User avatar
geo

2C - MOD & GOLD
pets endangered by possible book avalanche
Posts: 4779
Joined: Sun Aug 03, 2008 4:24 am
15
Location: NC
Has thanked: 2199 times
Been thanked: 2200 times
United States of America

Re: COSMOS - Episode 3

Unread post

ant wrote:Atheism is a worldview when it begins to opine on the non existence of a Being who's existence would undoubtedly be metaphysical in nature.

You can not refute the existence of a Being that does not exist within our natural realm. And that is exactly what aggressive and arrogant atheism does when the claim "God does not exist" is made.
And, yet, if I made a claim that a supernatural something existed, say in my kitchen, you would probably not be willing to accept this claim without question, right? Does that make you arrogant? Would you think it more likely that I really do have a supernatural thing in my kitchen, or that I only believe it (for various psychological reasons). Which is more likely?

Atheists merely address claims and assumptions about God made by others. If there was a religion devoted to floating teapots, it would create a whole group of nonbelievers called a-teapotists. Because the Teapotists are actually making the positive claims. The a-teapotists are questioning those claims.

So atheists don't really have an agenda to not believe in God or spend much time even thinking about God (because they don't believe God actually exists). I almost never talk about God in the real world because it just doesn't come up. It's only here on BT when I see something like "you cannot refute that a Being that does not exist within our natural realm" kind of statement that makes me say, say what? Are you serious? This statement would not apply to any other claim and, yet, it does for God. Why?

The bolded part is my main point. Should you choose to respond, that's the part you should address.
-Geo
Question everything
User avatar
ant

1G - SILVER CONTRIBUTOR
BookTalk.org Hall of Fame
Posts: 5935
Joined: Thu Jun 02, 2011 12:04 pm
12
Has thanked: 1371 times
Been thanked: 969 times

Re: COSMOS - Episode 3

Unread post

ant wrote:
. I'd like to know if the historians actually claim that without Christianity science would have had a rough time, or if they say, rather, that the two got along, which is a little different.
What I can say with near certainty is this: historical scholarship may not claim without Christianity scientific development would not have taken place.
What's is however agreed upon is that the Conflict Thesis has not been accepted by historical scholarship in the least. It was an idea disseminated largely to promote the specialization and profession of the sciences.

You are welcome to check the accuracy of my claim.

Perhaps these are related thoughts:

Aristotle has been severely criticized for his theories of motion for having been filled with obvious error that any rational person would have/should have taken immediate note. Is such criticism justified?
no - it is not the job of the historian to assign credit and blame to be the reason for the study of history in it's proper context. There are always competing theories at the time in question, each staking claim to being the most sensible within itself. It is by and large the various competitors that disseminate criticisms to advance their own models.

Was Christianity at odds with Science? Historians know that the relationship between the two was highly complex. Hence, no true historian would paint a black and white picture of the historical record. Nor would the historian sum up epochs in overly simplistic "this vs that" pictorials.
The only individual that who would accept that would be one with a personal agenda that does not mind promoting propaganda for the purpose of advancing his worldview.
User avatar
ant

1G - SILVER CONTRIBUTOR
BookTalk.org Hall of Fame
Posts: 5935
Joined: Thu Jun 02, 2011 12:04 pm
12
Has thanked: 1371 times
Been thanked: 969 times

Re: COSMOS - Episode 3

Unread post

geo wrote:
ant wrote:Atheism is a worldview when it begins to opine on the non existence of a Being who's existence would undoubtedly be metaphysical in nature.

You can not refute the existence of a Being that does not exist within our natural realm. And that is exactly what aggressive and arrogant atheism does when the claim "God does not exist" is made.
And, yet, if I made a claim that a supernatural something existed, say in my kitchen, you would probably not be willing to accept this claim without question, right? Does that make you arrogant? Would you think it more likely that I really do have a supernatural thing in my kitchen, or that I only believe it (for various psychological reasons). Which is more likely?

Atheists merely address claims and assumptions about God made by others. If there was a religion devoted to floating teapots, it would create a whole group of nonbelievers called a-teapotists. Because the Teapotists are actually making the positive claims. The a-teapotists are questioning those claims.

So atheists don't really have an agenda to not believe in God or spend much time even thinking about God (because they don't believe God actually exists). I almost never talk about God in the real world because it just doesn't come up. It's only here on BT when I see something like "you cannot refute that a Being that does not exist within our natural realm" kind of statement that makes me say, say what? Are you serious? This statement would not apply to any other claim and, yet, it does for God. Why?

The bolded part is my main point. Should you choose to respond, that's the part you should address.
WITHDRAWN
Last edited by ant on Mon Apr 07, 2014 6:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
ant

1G - SILVER CONTRIBUTOR
BookTalk.org Hall of Fame
Posts: 5935
Joined: Thu Jun 02, 2011 12:04 pm
12
Has thanked: 1371 times
Been thanked: 969 times

Re: COSMOS - Episode 3

Unread post

I don't expect COSMOS ever to make an honest effort to give the history of science anything more than cursory coverage with subtle shades that vilify the dominant religious institution at the time.

The fact is that science WAS philosophy. The goal of the great natural philosophers was to understand essential natures, not to explore quantitative relationships. The philosophy of mechanicalism was the beginning of the separation of man from nature.
Now our "modern methods" of science which have reduced every living thing into meat automatons with predetermined behavior.

I'm certain the scientists of antiquity believed their science was on the right track. Just the same, we have our modern triumphalists who declare our science as the Oracle of Great Truths.
The great truths of modern science tell us there is nothing beyond the reach of the scientific method. Anyone who does not submit to this truth is against rationality.
That is why we have the zealots of scientism marginalizing those who do not worship the myth of science AS religion.
And they have turned science into a religion. They're just too deaf, dumb, and blind to realize. it.
User avatar
Interbane

1G - SILVER CONTRIBUTOR
BookTalk.org Hall of Fame
Posts: 7203
Joined: Sat Oct 09, 2004 12:59 am
19
Location: Da U.P.
Has thanked: 1105 times
Been thanked: 2166 times
United States of America

Re: COSMOS - Episode 3

Unread post

ant wrote:The philosophy of mechanicalism was the beginning of the separation of man from nature
The philosophy of mechanicalism, as you put it, was the connection of man to nature. Nature is mechanical. The aristotelian philosophy before this is what actually separated man from nature.
ant wrote:The great truths of modern science tell us there is nothing beyond the reach of the scientific method. Anyone who does not submit to this truth is against rationality.
You keep mistakenly assuming Sam Harris is a member of booktalk. Or were you speaking in general(strawman) terms? You set up then attack straw men so often here ant that it must be trolling. Everyone else here can see it clear as day, as they've pointed out many times. What other websites are you visting or that get you all riled up against the evil scientism atheists that you feel the need to come here and vent?

We should try this whole cosmos discussion again, without an innocent comment being transmuted into rants against the onslaught of tyrannical scientism.
In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and has been widely regarded as a bad move.” - Douglas Adams
User avatar
Interbane

1G - SILVER CONTRIBUTOR
BookTalk.org Hall of Fame
Posts: 7203
Joined: Sat Oct 09, 2004 12:59 am
19
Location: Da U.P.
Has thanked: 1105 times
Been thanked: 2166 times
United States of America

Re: COSMOS - Episode 3

Unread post

More stories from the front lines of ant's war on scientism: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/04/0 ... 07342.html
In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and has been widely regarded as a bad move.” - Douglas Adams
Post Reply

Return to “Science & Technology”