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Dissident Heart  Wisdom Personified Bronze Contributor


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Posted: Tue Oct 19, 2004 2:49 pm Post subject: The Revenge of a Child
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Below is an essay written by Israeli peace activist Uri Avnery. Uri is a member of the Israeli organization Gush Shalom and has spent a lifetime working for peace between Israel and Palestine, Jews and Arabs, Secular and Religious folks in the region.
This essay is a powerful lens for making sense of the mind that chooses Terror as a response to impossible circumstances. Avnery is Israeli, lives in the midst of terrible terrorist threat daily, and is still able to find the human hunger for knowledge and compassion to understand what motivates a child to strap explosives onto their body and destroy life in so horrid a way.
I think he allows the reader to see the role of innocence and guilt on all sides.
I'm interested in seeing what sense Booktalk folks can make of it.
Quote: The Revenge of a Child by URI AVNERY November 18, 2002
Since last Sunday, a question has been running around in my head and troubling my sleep: What induced the young Palestinian, who broke into Kibbutz Metzer, to aim his weapon at a mother and her two little children and kill them?
In war one does not kill children. That is a fundamental human instinct, common to all peoples and all cultures. Even a Palestinian who wants to take revenge for the hundreds of children killed by the Israeli army should not take revenge on children. No moral commandment says "a child for a child".
The persons who do these things are not known as crazy killers, blood-thirsty from birth. In almost all interviews with relatives and neighbors they are described as quite ordinary, non-violent individuals. Many of them are not religious fanatics. Indeed, Sirkhan Sirkhan, the man who committed the deed in Metzer, belonged to Fatah, a secular movement.
These persons belong to all social classes; some come from poor families who have reached the threshold of hunger, but others come from middle class families, university students, educated people. Their genes are not different from ours.
So what makes them do these things? What makes other Palestinians justify them?
In order to cope, one has to understand, and that does not mean to justify. Nothing in the world can justify a Palestinian who shoots at a child in his mother's embrace, just as nothing can justify an Israeli who drops a bomb on a house in which a child is sleeping in his bed. As the Hebrew poet Bialik wrote a hundred years ago, after the Kishinev pogrom: "Even Satan has not yet invented the revenge for the blood of a little child."
But without understanding, it is impossible to cope. The chiefs of the IDF have a simple solution: hit, hit, hit. Kill the attackers. Kill their commanders. Kill the leaders of their organizations. Demolish the homes of their families and exile their relatives. But, wonder of wonders, these methods achieve the opposite. After the huge IDF bulldozer flattens the "terrorist infrastructure", destroying-killing-uprooting everything on its way, within days a new "infrastructure" comes into being. According to the announcements of the IDF itself, since operation "Protective Shield" there have been some fifty warnings of imminent attacks every day.
The reason for this can be summed up in one word: rage.
Terrible rage, that fills the soul of a human being, leaving no space for anything else. Rage that dominates the person's whole life, making life itself unimportant. Rage that wipes out all limitations, eclipses all values, breaks the chains of family and responsibility. Rage that a person wakes up with in the morning, goes to sleep with in the evening, dreams about at night. Rage that tells a person: get up, take a weapon or an explosive belt, go to their homes and kill, kill, kill, no matter what the consequences.
An ordinary Israeli, who has never been in the Palestinian territories, cannot even imagine the reasons for this rage. Our media totally ignore the events there, or describe them in small, sweetened doses. The average Israeli knows somehow that the Palestinians suffer (it's their own fault, of course), but he has no idea what's really happening there. It doesn't concern him, anyhow.
Homes are demolished. A merchant, lawyer, ordinary craftsman, respected in his community, turns overnight into a "homeless", he and his children and grandchildren. Each one of them a potential suicide bomber.
Fruit-trees are being uprooted in their thousands. For the officer, it's just a tree, an obstacle. For the owners, it's the blood of his heart, the heritage of his forefathers, years of toil, the livelihood of his family. Each one of them a potential suicide bomber.
On a hill between the villages a gang of thugs has put up an "outpost". The army arrives to defend them. When the villagers come to till their fields, they are shot at. They are forbidden to work in all fields and groves within a one or two kilometers range, so that the security of the outpost will not be endangered. The peasants see from afar, with longing eyes, how their fruit is rotting on the trees, how their fields are being covered by thorns and thistles waist high, while their children have nothing to eat. Each one of them a potential suicide bomber.
People are killed. Their torn bodies lie in the streets, for everyone to see. Some of them are "martyrs" who chose their lot. But many others - men, women, children - are killed "by mistake", "accidentally", "trying to escape", "were close to the source of fire" - and all the hundred and one pretexts of professional spokesmen. The IDF does not apologize, officers and soldiers are never convicted, because "that's how things are in war". But each of the people killed has parents, brothers, sons, cousins. Each one of them a potential suicide bomber.
Beyond these are the families living on the fringes of hunger, suffering from severe malnutrition. Fathers who cannot bring food to their children feel despair. Each one of them a potential suicide bomber.
Hundred of thousands are kept under curfew for weeks and months on end, eight persons cooped up in two or three rooms, a living hell difficult to imagine, while outside the settlers have a ball, protected by the soldiers. A vicious circle: yesterday's bombers caused the curfew, the curfew creates the bombers of tomorrow.
And beyond all these, the total humiliation which every Palestinian, without distinction of age, gender or social standing, experiences every moment of his life. Not an abstract humiliation, but an altogether concrete one. To be dependent for life and death on the whim of an 18-year old boy in the street and at one of the innumerable checkpoints that a Palestinian has to pass wherever he goes, while gangs of settlers pass freely and "visit" their villages, damage property, pick the olives in their groves, set fire to the trees.
An Israeli who has not seen it cannot imagine such a life, a situation of "every bastard a king" and "the slave who has becomes master", a situation of curses and pushes at best, threats with weapons in many cases, actual shooting in some. Not to mention the sick on the way to dialysis, the pregnant women on the way to hospital, students who don't get to their classes, children who can't reach their schools. The youngsters who see their venerable grandfather publicly humiliated by some boy in uniform with a runny nose. Each one of them a potential suicide bomber.
A normal Israeli cannot imagine all this. After all, the soldiers are nice boys, the sons of all of us, only yesterday they were schoolboys. But when one takes these nice boys and puts them in uniforms, pushes them through the military machine and puts them into a situation of occupation, something happens to them. Many try to keep their human face in impossible circumstances, many others become order-fulfilling robots. And always, in every company, there are some disturbed people who flourish in this situation and do repulsive things, knowing that their officers will turn a blind eye or wink approvingly.
All this does not justify the killing of children in the arms of their mother. But it helps to grasp why this is happening, and why this will go on happening as long as the occupation lasts.
Uri Avnery has closely followed the career of Sharon for four decades. Over the years, he has written three extensive biographical essays about him, two (1973, 1981) with his cooperation. Avnery is featured in the new book, The Other Israel: Voices of Refusal and Dissent.
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Dissident Heart  Wisdom Personified Bronze Contributor


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Posted: Thu Oct 21, 2004 9:35 pm Post subject: Re: The Revenge of a Child
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Quote: Terrible rage, that fills the soul of a human being, leaving no space for anything else. Rage that dominates the person's whole life, making life itself unimportant. Rage that wipes out all limitations, eclipses all values, breaks the chains of family and responsibility. Rage that a person wakes up with in the morning, goes to sleep with in the evening, dreams about at night. Rage that tells a person: get up, take a weapon or an explosive belt, go to their homes and kill, kill, kill, no matter what the consequences.
I would really like to hear some thoughts from folks at Booktalk about this article, and this selection in particular.
As I see it, Avnery has captured as succinctly and fairly as possible the logic of terrorism, and all of the components that feed such a dangerous mix of emotions, allegiences, ideas and impractical responses to impossible situations.
I also think there is a great deal on the shoulders of the US taxpayer regarding this terrible situation in Israel/Palestine...this rage is on our hands as well.
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trav5787 Getting comfortable
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Posted: Fri Oct 22, 2004 12:34 pm Post subject: Re: The Revenge of a Child
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Quote: Terrible rage, that fills the soul of a human being, leaving no space for anything else. Rage that dominates the person's whole life, making life itself unimportant. Rage that wipes out all limitations, eclipses all values, breaks the chains of family and responsibility. Rage that a person wakes up with in the morning, goes to sleep with in the evening, dreams about at night. Rage that tells a person: get up, take a weapon or an explosive belt, go to their homes and kill, kill, kill, no matter what the consequences.
Satanic possession maybe? Or how about the fact that Muslims constantly preach hate towards Jews and call them pigs so the Pals. don't see them as human. |
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Dissident Heart  Wisdom Personified Bronze Contributor


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Posted: Fri Oct 22, 2004 1:03 pm Post subject: Re: The Revenge of a Child
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Quote: Satanic possession maybe? Or how about the fact that Muslims constantly preach hate towards Jews and call them pigs so the Pals. don't see them as human.
Well, it's helpful to see how irrelevant a conversation with you will be on the subject. I mean, your dangerously provocative oversimplification and generalization of "Muslims" betrays either a purposeful ignorance of the diverse complexity of Islam...or perhaps the same sort of rage discussed in the above posts.
In either case, your approach is not part of any solution- unless it be one that seeks further enragement.
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trav5787 Getting comfortable
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Tiarella Intern
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macbroo Almost a regular
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Dissident Heart  Wisdom Personified Bronze Contributor


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Posted: Fri Oct 22, 2004 3:45 pm Post subject: Re: The Revenge of a Child
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I'm not interested in any approach to the subject that is unwilling to take some responsibility for the crisis.
If you are unable to see the role of Israel in the mess, and the support of the USA in making this role possible, then we can end this conversation now.
If you are able to recognize Israel's and the US' part in the tragedies, and are willing to hold ourselves accountable, end these behviors, work to repair what we've damaged, then we can continue in the conversation.
And, after you've accepted the legitimate grievances of many Palestinians and much of the Muslim world, and are working to hold yourself accountable in regard to these grievances, then we can discuss the abuses committed by Palestinians and Muslims in the region.
Until then, you are an amoral agent in the discussion, and only adding to the problem.
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macbroo Almost a regular
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Tiarella Intern
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Posted: Fri Oct 22, 2004 4:21 pm Post subject: Re: The Revenge of a Child
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Louisa, "a satanic cult like Islam?"
The followers of Islam, which is no more a cult than Judaism, Christianity, or Buddhism, do not worship Satan.
General comment to anyone posting in this thread - discussing the situation in Israel will stir very strong emotions. My plea: can we keep from embedding any name-calling/personal attacks and the like in our arguments? It's going to be hot enough as it is! |
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Dissident Heart  Wisdom Personified Bronze Contributor


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Posted: Fri Oct 22, 2004 4:31 pm Post subject: Re: The Revenge of a Child
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Quote: But, our support of Israel does not make the U.S. guilty of anything.
Whether it be the blocking of scores of UN Security Council Resolutions against Israel; the near blanket support of Israel by American politicians; the inordinate amount of foreign monetary aid in outright gifts, grants, loans with little or no interest, to be easily and often forgiven; the building and supplying of attack helicopters, aircraft, armored vehicles, weaponry, armaments; the supplying of engineering equipment, building supplies and machinery for the continued building of illegal settlements; the supplying of Caterpillar bulldozing equipment used to demolish entire homes, neighborhoods, and communities, as well as uproot olive groves that have existed for multiple generations of Palestinian families...the USA has an ABSOLUTELY crucial role in the survival of Israel and the devastation of Palestine.
If you are unwilling to admit this, then you are part of the problem.
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Niall001  Stupendously Brilliant
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Posted: Mon Oct 25, 2004 4:49 pm Post subject: Re: Christianity and the Holocaust
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| Macbro, I once lived with a devout Muslim. Care to explain why he didn't kill me? Let us agree, there is no one single reality. Not upon this stage, not in this world, all is in the mind... imagination is the only truth. Because it cannot be contradicted except by other imaginations - Richard Matheson
There are no conclusive indications by which waking life can be distinguished from sleep - Rene Descartes |
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Chris OConnor  Rhodes Scholar BookTalk.org Owner

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Posted: Tue Oct 26, 2004 2:36 am Post subject: Re: Christianity and the Holocaust
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This thread has again reminded me of how no one person can have a monopoly on truth. I've been reading and participating in several of the recent discussions about God, Leviticus and other religious themes. I agree with some people and disagree with others.
My point here is that it is amazing how I can agree so much with a few of the newcomers on various political issues, but see things completely differently when it comes to religion.
The comment that Allah is Satan comes from ignorance. Not ignorance as in "you're a dumbass," but ignorance as in the Webster’s definition. The author of that statement probably really believes it. But he/she is wrong and ignorant of the basics of the two world religions involved. Probably because he or she is a Christian and brainwashed into feeling special.
Tiarella said something that deserves to be repeated:
Quote: General comment to anyone posting in this thread - discussing the situation in Israel will stir very strong emotions. My plea: can we keep from embedding any name-calling/personal attacks and the like in our arguments? It's going to be hot enough as it is!
I'm going to bed and don't have the energy to make an intelligent post right now. Some would argue that I couldn’t make an intelligent post even when I’m wide-awake...but these people are clearly possessed by the devil.
Don't forget we have the Normal Bob Smith chat on Thursday. Talk about Satan! Jesus Christ this guy is hilarious. I'm only mentioning it here because some of you guys rarely check the home page.
Oh, and to the Christians that have recently arrived. You're welcome here. I'm serious. Please expect to have to defend your positions and to not be that popular, after all, we are the "freethinkers book discussion community." And its probably not such a good move to pick on the freethinker theme too much. Most members here are indeed freethinkers, quite intelligent, and obviously far more articulate than I be. Yes, I be was on purpose.
And if you think the Koran is evil you ought to see the Bible. Have you ever really read the Old Testament? Holy shit it’s filled with atrocious acts that should revolt you.
I hereby request the presence of all Christians in the Leviticus thread. Please pack a lunch.
XOXOXOX Chris "Education is the most powerful weapon which you can use to change the world." - Nelson Mandella |
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Chris OConnor  Rhodes Scholar BookTalk.org Owner

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Posted: Tue Oct 26, 2004 2:38 am Post subject: Re: Christianity and the Holocaust
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21:9 The daughter of any priest, if she profanes herself by playing the prostitute, she profanes her father: she shall be burned with fire.
Trust me...you do NOT want to meet God. One mistake or bad decision and he'll have you burned at the stake or stoned to death. Doubt me? Please do. Join the Leviticus thread and show me how I'm reading Gods book wrong.
God = Evil
Chris "Education is the most powerful weapon which you can use to change the world." - Nelson Mandella |
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Dissident Heart  Wisdom Personified Bronze Contributor


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