Electoral Collage (Ain't we stoopid!?)

Mr. Pessimistic

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Isn’t the Electoral College system undemocratic, since it does not permit the American people to directly choose their president?

Yes, it is undemocratic. But the Framers of the Constitution did not want a system in which the president was chosen directly by the voters. “The people are uninformed and would be misled by a few designing men,” said Massachusetts delegate Elbridge Gerry during the debate at the constitutional convention. (Gerry ended up not signing the Constitution.)

Since 1789, no majority in Congress and in the state legislatures has been able to muster enough support to change the system.

Do you like being called 'uniformed'. How many people are misled today? I'll take my chances.

Because of the college, 1.2 million Californians were upstaged by 7,000 New Hampshireans.

Talk about disenfranchisement!

This system needs to go.

Mr. P.

The one thing of which I am positive is that there is much of which to be negative - Mr. P.

I came to get down, I came to get down. So get out ya seat and jump around - House of Pain

HEY! Is that a ball in your court? - Mr. P

I came to kick ass and chew Bubble Gum...and I am all out of Bubble Gum - They Live, Roddy Piper

Dissident Heart

Democracy has always been enemy number one in America's history.

Any movement towards greater Democracy has had to overcome the weel organized propertied classes and the owners of the machines of industry and commerce.

The disenfranchisement of the People is a long and terribly ugly history in this Nation- as it is in all Nations.

Nations are not Democratic, they are Plutocracies at war with their pools of disposable labor.

The Electoral College was yet another victory by the Ruling Classes to curtail the participation of the People in the direction of power in their lives.

Privatizing the machinery of goods and services away from the State- which sounds like a good idea on the surface- actually places Power in the hands of totally unacountable bodies of highly centralized power and wealth...where there is not even a formal sense of democracy. We call these Corporations.

macbroo

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Democracy has always been enemy number one in America's history.

What do you suggest? Surely there is a much happier dictatorship in the world somewhere you might be content?

Democracy is mob rules. That's not how we govern ourselves in this country.

Now I'm rulingfor the hatchling!

Edited by: macbroo at: 10/29/04 6:45 pm

Mr. Pessimistic

Mob rules? I consider The BUSH family one of the major crime families in that case!

How bout that Bin Laden Tape!!

lol

Mr. P.

The one thing of which I am positive is that there is much of which to be negative - Mr. P.

I came to get down, I came to get down. So get out ya seat and jump around - House of Pain

HEY! Is that a ball in your court? - Mr. P

I came to kick ass and chew Bubble Gum...and I am all out of Bubble Gum - They Live, Roddy Piper

Dissident Heart

Quote:
What do you suggest?

I suggest something that takes seriously the values of diversity, solidarity, self-management, and participation of ALL members in the decisions that impact their lives. If you are interested in what this looks like in an economic context, I suggest you spend some time studying Participatory Economics. Considering that the vast majority of our lives are spent working for someone else, following their orders and mandates, and having little or no voice in the planning and implementation of policy in industry and wall street...i.e., the vast lack of popular participation in the power of wealth...Participatroy Economics (Parecon for short) is an excellent place to begin.

Likewise, if you are interetested in examining the many ways that popular democracy, social justice, economic sustainability, and participatory economics can develop and grow into a social structure worthy of the best of humane intelligence and virtue, then try this resource Projects for a Participatory Society

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Surely there is a much happier dictatorship in the world somewhere you might be content?

Unlike the foreign policy of the ruling classes in the USA (both Dems and Repubs) for the past 100 years, I do not support the financing, endorsing, propping up, encouraging, providing of military armaments and machinery, political pressure, and actual military invasions used to secure the power of some of the last century's worst Dictators.

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They are democratic America's undemocratic allies. They may rise to power through bloody ClA-backed coups and rule by terror and torture. Their troops may receive training or advice from the CIA and other US agencies. US military aid and weapons sales often strengthen their armies and guarantee their hold on power. Unwavering "anti-communism" and a willingness to provide unhampered access for American business interests to exploit their countries' natural resources and cheap labor are the excuses for their repression, and the primary reason the US government supports them. They may be linked internationalIy to extreme right-wing groups such as the World Anti-Communist League, and some have had strong Nazi affiliations and have offered sanctuary to WWll Nazi war criminals.

They usually grow rich, while their countries' economies deteriorate and the majority of their people live in poverty. US tax dollars and US-backed loans have made billionaires of some, while others are international drug dealers who also collect CIA paychecks. Rarely are they called to account for their crimes. And rarely still, is the US government held responsible for supporting and protecting some of the worst human rights violators in the world.

Friendly dictators
Abacha, General Sani -Nigeria
Amin, Idi -Uganda
Banzer, Colonel Hugo -Bolivia
Batista, Fulgencio -Cuba
Bolkiah, Sir Hassanal -Brunei
Botha, P.W. -South Africa
Branco, General Humberto -Brazil
Cedras, Raoul -Haiti
Cerezo, Vinicio -Guatemala
Chiang Kai-Shek -Taiwan
Cordova, Roberto Suazo - Honduras
Christiani, Alfredo -El Salvador
Diem, Ngo Dihn -Vietnam
Doe, General Samuel -Liberia
Duvalier, Francois -Haiti
Duvalier, Jean Claude-Haiti
Fahd bin'Abdul-'Aziz, King -Saudi Arabia
Franco, General Francisco -Spain
Hitler, Adolf -Germany
Hassan II-Morocco
Marcos, Ferdinand -Philippines
Martinez, General Maximiliano Hernandez -El Salvador
Mobutu Sese Seko -Zaire
Noriega, General Manuel -Panama
Ozal, Turgut -Turkey
Pahlevi, Shah Mohammed Reza -Iran
Papadopoulos, George -Greece
Park Chung Hee -South Korea
Pinochet, General Augusto -Chile
Pol Pot-Cambodia
Rabuka, General Sitiveni -Fiji
Montt, General Efrain Rios -Guatemala
Salassie, Halie -Ethiopia
Salazar, Antonio de Oliveira -Portugal
Somoza, Anastasio Jr. -Nicaragua
Somoza, Anastasio, Sr. -Nicaragua
Smith, Ian -Rhodesia
Stroessner, Alfredo -Paraguay
Suharto, General -Indonesia
Trujillo, Rafael Leonidas -Dominican Republic
Videla, General Jorge Rafael -Argentina
Zia Ul-Haq, Mohammed -Pakistan

And, of course, add to that list the current monster on parade, Sadaam Hussein...as well as free-agent terrorist, Osama Bin Laden and the Taliban.

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Democracy is mob rules.

That's how the ruling classes describe it, and always have. The filthy, dirty, stupid, ignorant and ill-bred masses- unfit and unable to make the important decisions that make 'decent' society possible. We should allow the 'better classes' to run the show- they know best, and will act toward the best interests of all. Which means, in the interests of the very few, the Elite Mobs of wealth, fortune, position, and power.

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That's not how we govern ourselves in this country.

Don't include me in your we. Frankly, the Ruling Classes don't include you in their 'we' either...even though you may like to think that.

macbroo

Misterpessimistic and Dissident, I've discovered that you have been pulling my leg for several days now! I now realize that you can't possibly mean one single thing you say!

:lol

Now I'm rulingfor the hatchling!


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