Mar. 2004 - Open letter to Colin Powell

Chris OConnor · Posted: Sun Apr 04, 2004 6:55 pm Post subject: Re: Ugly

This is actually becoming quite educational. As I wait for someone to produce evidence of a successful socialist nation I am doing some research into the matter on my own. One consistent theme emerges every time I come across a nation that moved from socialism to free-market. See if you can find the pattern too.

Italy

Italy has a diversified industrial economy with roughly the same total and per capita output as France and the UK. This capitalistic economy remains divided into a developed industrial north, dominated by private companies, and a less developed, welfare-dependent agricultural south, with 20% unemployment.

Note: Northern Italy prospers under a free-market economy while the south stagnates as a welfare state.

China

In late 1978 the Chinese leadership began moving the economy from a sluggish, Soviet-style centrally planned economy to a more market-oriented system. Whereas the system operates within a political framework of strict Communist control, the economic influence of non-state organizations and individual citizens has been steadily increasing. The authorities switched to a system of household and village responsibility in agriculture in place of the old collectivization, increased the authority of local officials and plant managers in industry, permitted a wide variety of small-scale enterprises in services and light manufacturing, and opened the economy to increased foreign trade and investment. The result has been a quadrupling of GDP since 1978. In 2003, with its 1.3 billion people but a GDP of just $5,000 per capita, China stood as the second-largest economy in the world after the US (measured on a purchasing power parity basis).

Chris

"The man who does not read good books has no advantage over the man who cannot read them" -- Mark Twain

Chris OConnor · Posted: Sun Apr 04, 2004 7:36 pm Post subject: Re: Ugly

Niall

Quote:
If 'working' is related to economic prosperity then 'socialism' is begining to work in China. BUt I doubt anyone likes the political systems employed in China.

See my above post. It is not socialism that is beginning to work in China, but the adaptation and incorporation of free-market principles.

Chris

"The man who does not read good books has no advantage over the man who cannot read them" -- Mark Twain

Dissident Heart

The Corporate Welfare Budget
Bigger Than Ever
by Stephen Slivinski. Stephen Slivinski is a fiscal policy analyst at the Cato Institute.

The Real Welfare Problem in San Francisco
Special 33rd Anniversary Investigative Report.

George W Bush: Field of Dreams

Quote:
"While there are no exact figures, best estimates suggest that the magnitude of corporate crime, fraud and abuse in the United States is staggering. In the aggregate, white-collar and corporate crime cost U.S. citizens and taxpayers hundreds of billions of dollars annually - far more than the most common forms of street crime such as burglary and robbery.

Using conservative numbers issued by the U.S. Chamber of Commerce, for example, criminologist Jeffrey Reimer estimated that the total cost of white-collar crime in 1997 was $338 billion, more than 80 times the total amount stolen in all thefts reported by the FBI that year. The actual cost is probably much greater..."

Corporate Crime and Abuse: Cracking Down on Corporate Crime from the Center for Corporate Policy

Quote:
"Americans may want to pay to help rebuild Iraq, but they do not want to pay for bloated corporate salaries.

The outrage over the $140 million plus pay package received by New York Stock Exchange head Richard Grasso was strong evidence
that the public, including regulatory officials and Wall Street leaders, perceive such excessive compensation as a sign of both
economic unfairness and flawed corporate governance.

In the debate over Iraq reconstruction, members of Congress shouldensure that contracts awarded do not constitute a taxpayer subsidy for excessive compensation."

Executive Compensation and Iraq Reconstruction Contractors http://www.corporatepolicy.org/issues/iraqpay.pdf

Niall001 · Posted: Mon Apr 05, 2004 2:02 pm Post subject: Nordic socialism

Chris,

Nordic socialism is the name most people give to the political/economic systems of Sweden, Denmark, Finland etc. For some reason the CIA almanac seems to refer to the systems differently. If i were a conspiracy theorist, I'd think that they didn't want to use the word socialist in a positive context.

The brand of socialism adopted in the Nordic states is the brand of socialism that I endorse. It is a practical. It has worked. Fair social insurance is the key to equality. Free (or at least heavily subsidised) health care is essential in creating an equal society. Access for all to well-funded to free education systems is needed if you want to create equal oppertunities for all of your citizens. Other structures such a state funded child care centers, old age homes and in-home assistance help aswell.

Ok, so none of the states I mentioned are paradise, but in the case of poverty, equality, education, health and freedom, no system is better.

As for the suicide comment, in the 1950s, one Dwight D. Eisenhower announced to the world that Sweden had the worst suicide rates in all the world. That wasn't the case. It is well documented. The good man who would be president declared Sweden to be the land of "free love, high taxes and suicide" when questioned about Nordic socialism during his campaign for office.

Interestingly, I've been reading about the alarming increase in suicide rates in the eastern european countries whose political systems have changed their alliegence from the SU to the USA. Should we see this as a mark against capitalism?


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