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Jeremy1952  Doctorate Bronze Contributor

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Posted: Thu Feb 20, 2003 10:35 am Post subject: Nov. 2002 - Is the US the ultimate rogue nation?
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This thread is for discussing the Rationally Speaking article from November of 2002 entitled Is the US the ultimate rogue nation?
Quote: N. 30, November 2002
Is the US the ultimate rogue nation? As often when I begin a column that I think might be particularly offensive to some readers (apparently, some readers will find a way to be offended by almost anything I say each month, but I can do little about that), I will begin this one with a couple of disclaimers. You are about to read some disturbing things about the United States of America. This does not imply: a) that I don’t appreciate the US as the only experiment in history of a country established on the rational principles of the Enlightenment; nor: b) that I have any sympathy whatsoever for tyrants and dictators, be they Saddam Hussein or Augusto Pinochet.
This said, let me make a case for the idea that the United States is, in fact, the ultimate “rogue” state and that it—therefore—cannot use the label on other nations as an excuse to attack them (at least, not rationally). Let’s start from the basics: the Oxford dictionary defines rogue (first meaning) as: “Dishonest or unprincipled person; mischievous child.” I assume we can transfer this definition to the level of state, though that raises interesting philosophical questions about the “character” of a nation which we will need to set aside for now.
Here, then, is my evidence for the conclusion that the US is the mother of all modern rogue states. First, arguing for a pre-emptive strike against another sovereign nation is in direct violation of the United Nations charter, and therefore puts the US outside of the international community. To vow to abide by a certain code of conduct and then refuse to do so when it is inconvenient for oneself surely qualifies as “mischievous” behavior.
Second, the US has consistently avoided joining the international community in a number of treaties that have—ironically—seen it side with “rogue” states such as Libya, Iran, and Iraq (in other words, seen from outside, we look a lot like part of the “axis of evil”). Examples include: back-pedaling on the Kyoto accord on the environment; refusing to join the anti-land mine treaty; refusing to join and actively sabotaging the international tribunal. It is “dishonest” and “unprincipled” to ask for other people to respect international law and then arrogate for one self the right to violate it.
Third, the US has recently announced that it will allocate funds to train anti-Iraqi militias recruited among the many dissenting minorities harassed by Saddam Hussein. How, exactly, is this not equivalent to setting up a terrorist training camp? Is it just because these people will be doing the dirty work for and not against the US? Because we are right and they are wrong? I am reminded of a Star Trek—Next Generation episode (one of the highest sources of my enlightenment) in which an otherwise seldom judgmental Captain Picard is reproaching a defecting Romulan general for his past military actions against the Federation. The general reminds Picard that one people’s butcher is another people’s hero. What should distinguish the US as a democracy are not only its principles, but the way they are defended. If the end justifies the means, then the US is moving perilously close to the sort of behavior that it condemns in others.
Which brings me to the fourth point: surely our impending aggression of Iraq cannot seriously be framed as a defense of democracy. Doing so would be another example of dishonesty and lack of principles. If the US is really interested in democracy, why on earth is it attacking puny Iraq while at the same time give permanent most favorite nation status to China? Have we forgotten Tien An Mein? Do we really think that the Chinese leaders threat their people better than Hussein? And don’t we know for sure (as opposed to speculating) that the Chinese do have plenty of weapons of mass destruction? I am not, of course, suggesting that the US declare war to China, just that it be a bit more consistent (principled, not rogue) in its foreign policy.
Now, being a rogue state in the sense in which the US surely is can, and has been, defended on rational principles. Robert Kaplan, for example, has written a book entitled Warrior Politics: Why Leadership Demands a Pagan Ethos, in which he makes the argument that the US, as the only superpower in the world, should behave outside of international law. Indeed, Kaplan criticizes most American politicians for being held back (ironically, I would add) by their Christian ethos. Instead, he claims, they should embrace Machiavelli’s “pagan” attitude and do what needs to be done.
Kaplan’s dichotomy is, I think, the real conundrum that the US has to resolve during the 21st century. Does the US want to be seen by the rest of the world as a principled nation, fighting fairly for what it sees is right, or as a Machiavellian entity willing to lie and cheat to get whatever it feels is due it? Think about it really hard, because this will determine how history will see the US and, more importantly, is already affecting the lives of millions of people on this planet.
Quote: Robert Kaplan, for example, has written a book entitled Warrior Politics: Why Leadership Demands a Pagan Ethos, in which he makes the argument that the US, as the only superpower in the world, should behave outside of international law. Indeed, Kaplan criticizes most American politicians for being held back (ironically, I would add) by their Christian ethos. Instead, he claims, they should embrace Machiavelli’s “pagan” attitude and do what needs to be done.
This is the position I am leaning toward… which does not make me terribly popular with the mostly anti-war crowd who I feel are my natural cohorts. This is a drastic and incomplete change for me, based largely on three disparate inputs:
1. Bloom, Lucifer Principle, makes a scary and convincing case for “barbarians at the gates.”
2. Axelrod, Complexity of Cooperation, analyzes the establishment, importance, and maintenance of norms. (I haven’t finished the book and he hasn’t finished the research, so these thoughts are preliminary). A fundamental hypothesis, which I assert is true, is that laws alone are not sufficient for real social change. For example, decades after racial segregation was outlawed in the United States, it still persists; but the norm has gradually shifted from “get away with lynching” to “throw Trent Lott out for supporting prior racism”. The law supports the norm and would be useless without it.
Now an interesting thing about stable norms is that they require a metanorm, thus: there must be a norm that says, punish participants who don’t punish violators. Absent this addition, the cost of punishment is too great for any one participant to be willing to incur it, and the norm quickly deteriorates. (Draw your own conclusion regarding instant case; I’m still mulling it myself)
3. Hobbes, Leviathan. The anti-anarchist. Also not finished by me. His fundamental case is congruent with everything I know about anthropology and human relations: that even a bad state is better than no state, because the best things humans accomplish we accomplish in groups, and without a central authority we deteriorate into warring bands. Hobbes despised democracy and postulated a noble leadership that doesn’t, can’t, exist; there simply was not enough known about human nature in 1651. This invalidates the second part of his thesis (benevolent monarchy) but not the first (anarchy sucks). Had this brilliant philosopher seen the success of the democratic experiment, I think he would have changed his view.
4. Pinker, Blank Slate. Solid research to back up the fundamental need for authority, but also the reality that, since such authority is made up of human beings, there have to be checks and balances. “Absolute power corrupts absolutely” has for all practical purposes been proven.
5. Diamond, Guns, Germs, and Steel. Real life examples of how bad life is without a state, and how dependent progress is on effective political systems.Quote: Does the US want to be seen by the rest of the world as a principled nation, fighting fairly for what it sees is right, or as a Machiavellian entity willing to lie and cheat to get whatever it feels is due it?
I think this is a false dichotomy. The question is not whether we lie and cheat… every political entity does. The question is the purpose of such lying and cheating. So I would offer a third alternative: “Does the US want to be seen by the rest of the world as a Machiavellian entity, willing to lie and cheat in service of the best system ever devised by humankind, to bring about the best world for the greatest number of people, or as a weakling willing to let theocrats and dictators run the world instead?” Edited by: Chris OConnor at: 7/19/03 3:00 pm
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ZachSylvanus  Sophomore Bronze Contributor


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Posted: Thu Feb 20, 2003 1:10 pm Post subject: Re: Is the US the ultimate rogue nation?
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I'd say even the third choice is biased.
We've established and defended certain charters which give every sovereign nation the right to its own existence. The norm has been attack in retaliation, or in view of immediate threat.
We don't really have that right now. Our modern era is on the brink of devolving into the age of Empire, where a sovereign nation's existence is a right only insofar as nobody else wants to challenge it. The United States, historically the keeper of such covenants in the past century, is essentially about to embark upon a mission of conquest. A pre-emptive strike such as is suggested by our current administration, where there is no immediate threat visible, is little more than a sugar coating on colonialization. Invading a nation with no reason, deposing its ruler, this is all something we sought to stop ten or so years ago when Hussein did the same thing.
That Saddam Hussein is a horrible human can go unargued...but when he's kept his nose clean (seemingly) for the charges leveled against him...do we have the right to step in and destroy the very principles we've defended?
And if we do so, how much longer will the Republic stand? Will the administration stop with Iraq, or will it set a precedent? Can the Empire remain a Republic?
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LanDroid  Graduate Student Silver Contributor


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Posted: Fri Feb 21, 2003 8:18 am Post subject: Re: Is the US the ultimate rogue nation?
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Perhaps a simpler dichotomy - will our actions be guided by the principles we claim to support or will they be guided by power, we'll just do it because we can?
I'm against this war - Iraq is a dangerous distraction from the war on Al Qaeda. However, it's ridiculous to claim the U.S. is "the ultimate rogue state". Notice the U.S. started out by talking about pre-emptive regime change. If we had acted on that, we would have behaved like Russia invading Afghanistan or Iraq and Kuwait - there was zero international debate, they just did it. But the U.S. backed off, got a U.N. resolution, and continues to attempt to build an international coalition. It's not going smoothly, but notice we're even going for a 2nd U.N. resolution - we'll see how that plays out. If we were "the ultimate rogue state", none of this diplomacy, coalition building, inspections, resolutions, or presentation of evidence would be going on - we would just friggin do it like a bad-assed rogue state should! Those that claim we're a terrorist or rogue nation are applying different standards to the U.S. and merely pointing out that we are not meeting the highest possible standards of international diplomacy - standards that no nation has ever met... |
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wmmurrah Almost a regular
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Posted: Fri Feb 21, 2003 2:28 pm Post subject: Re: Is the US the ultimate rogue nation?
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To date we have attempted to use the "appropriate channels" to initiate war with Iraq: through petitioning support from the UN. However, it appears our administration may be planning to initiate this war without approval of the UN. If this happens I fear the consequences. In essence our administration is saying " we support the diplomatic process of the UN that, by the way, we were crucial in establishing as the way to handle world crises and maintain world peace, but we only support this process when it is to our favor." It's the "might is right" syndrome.
Unless we can make a case that Iraq is an IMMEDIATE threat I beleive we have no right to attack. |
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Jeremy1952  Doctorate Bronze Contributor

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