there ya go. different tastes for different folks.

I recommended skipping the first book altogether...

Why not? Give it a shot, if you don't like the first book, though, don't write off the whole series. In my opinion, it gets much better after that.

When I say King's "usual style of sprawl," I should clarify that I still like his writing a lot. The first book is probably a different flavor than the rest of the series and Johnson's suggestion probably makes sense. It makes me want to go ahead with the second book now. Thanks, Johnson. It's not like I'm looking for things to read.

tell me about it.

After finishing each book i look at my shelves and dread.

I know I am coming to this thread belatedly, but I just started reading "A Game of Thrones" (our library just got all four books in the "Ice and Fire" set). My experience in fantasy is limited (I usually prefer science fiction), and personally, my favorite is "Lord of the Rings." Hey, tastes differ. I did read the entire Dark Tower series, and didn't really like the ending either. Anyway, after LOTR, I found most fantasy to be just a lukewarm clone. But... Game of Thrones is different; I picked it up just to see if I would like it, and am hooked.

Martin has said he tries to subvert expectations.

A character dies and you think, well then, it's definitely up to this next character to avenge that first death, but nope... it doesn't work out that way.

Funny that we expect things to shake out so cleanly in a book when it almost never happens that way in reality. people who deserve justice don't get it, bankers torpedo the economy, then get raises...

Why are we shocked when that happens in our books?

Why are we shocked when that happens in our books?

I think it is because we read fiction in an attempt to get us away from reality for a while. A friend of mine once said, "If I want to see the bad guys win, I'll just watch the six o'clock news."

I am now well into "A Clash of Kings," Book Two in the series. While I have yet to find anyone I would consider a hero, there are plenty of villains to go around.

The Chronicles of Thomas Covenant the Unbeliever is a fantasy trilogy by Stephen R. Donaldson.

a netizen known as Seth at goodreads describes it thusly

http://www.goodreads.com/book/show/1790 ... Unbeliever

This series is somewhat infamous: it's widely regarded as brilliant (which it is), it's widely considered depressing (which it can be), the hero is often unappealing (which is the point), and many find the trilogy at least 25% too long (which is true). Plus, the follow-on trilogy tells almost the same story with almost the same point to it.

So, what's the fuss about?

Covenant isn't "Tolkien with the serial numbers filed off." That it holds together with a complete fantasy story in a clear, magical...

might be worth a quick look, i read it when i was quite young and loved it.