You are browsing the forum as a guest. Please log in or register to access additional features.
Online reading group and book discussion forum
  HOME ABOUT BOOKS VIDEOS TRANSCRIPTS LINKS BLOGS DONATE CONTACT  

     Log in   Register 


BookTalk.org News
• A new forum has been created exclusively for discussing poetry!
• We now have a VIDEOS page featuring videos of our authors giving lectures, talks, interviews or engaged in debates. You'll find the link in the top green navigation bar.
• Guy P. Harrison, author of "50 reasons people give for believing in a god," has accepted our invitation to either a live chat session or an email interview!

Links & Resources

Community Rules & Tips
For Authors & Publishers
Link to our old forum
Our Amazon.com Statistics
Book Suggestions
Donations to BookTalk.org
BookTalk Forum Statistics
Games 170 FREE Games


Featured Videos

Jodi Picoult
"My Sister's Keeper"

Jodi Picoult - My Sister's Keeper

Robert Burton
"On Being Certain"


Robert Burton - On Being Certain

More Videos


Author Interviews

  

Featured Member Blogs

Ophelia's Blog
Lawrenceindestin's Blog
Penelope's Blog
Frank 013's Blog

- All Member Blogs
- Blog News


Chat Room

Enter the BookTalk.org Chat Room
Enter Chat Room

Show us where you live!
BookTalk.org Member Map

Donate & Support BookTalk.org

Please support our free community by making a credit card donation through our secure PayPal account. We appreciate and depend on the generosity of our members. Thank you!

See who supports us


Display Pagerank


Alas Poor Darwin


 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    BookTalk.org Forum Index -> Non-Fiction Book Suggestions & Polls
Author Message
PeterDF PeterDF has been starred
Freshman





Joined: 07 Jul 2003

Posts: 214
Gender: Male



PostPosted: Sun Aug 24, 2003 10:53 am    Post subject: Alas Poor Darwin Reply with quote
A review of: "Alas Poor Darwin - Arguments against Evolutionary Psychology." edited by Steven Rose and Hilary Rose.

Alas the Misty Mountain by Peter Fisher

I had been looking forward - with some trepidation - to reading this book.

With such eminent contributors as Mary Midgeley, Stephen Rose, and the late Stephen J. Gould, I was expecting a devastating and effective rebuttal of the views of Richard Dawkins, Daniel Dennet and the evolutionary psychologists.

So have the most capable and lucid thinkers in the field managed to create a great unclimbable misty mountain to challenge Dawkins’ famously climbable “Mount Improbable”?

Except for Mary Midgely and – of course - Steven J. Gould’s essays. Much of the book seemed filled with post-modernist, obscurantic jargon. It would be wrong to suggest that the writers were being deliberately evasive, but when the big words were decoded I was left with the impression that they had little worthwhile to say.

One of the writers seemed to think that, because his daughter was not afraid of spiders - and therefore not everyone is - there could not be a universal human behavioural trait for fear of spiders. If everyone had fear of spiders there would be no genetic diversity for natural selection to act on. It should have been perfectly obvious that no one expects that human universals would be found in every individual human being. Least of all fear of spiders, for which trait, there has probably been no selective pressure for thousands of years. (There are no poisonous spiders in Northern Europe.)

Another completely false argument is that because genes often act in concert with other genes in ways that often seem tortuously complex, that we humans ought not to think that genes can be selected in a simple way as the selfish gene idea implies. It is true that most genes do not have a simple one to one relationship with their phenotypic effects; It may be that a complex of genes may produce the effect, but if the effect is visible to selection, that particular complex of genes will be either favoured (or disfavoured). If someone has a particular genetic makeup, which renders that particular complex of genes less likely they will be at adaptive advantage (or disadvantage). As the writers of this book all accept that evolution did happen and that natural selection was its principle driving force, denial that the system works like this means that they would have to accept that they themselves could not have evolved – so who wrote the book?

However take out the jargon and we are left with two or three worthwhile, lucid and interesting essays. There is no denying the clarity and elegance of Gould’s prose. He eloquently attacks his favourite stalking horses – the Darwinian fundamentalists, repeating his famous argument that contingency has a profound effect on the evolution of life: previously expounded in his book “Wonderful Life” based on his interpretation of the astonishing Burgess Shale Fossils. Unfortunately though, his interpretation has already been effectively challenged, if not rebutted, by Simon Conway Morris in his book “Crucible of Creation” and by Dawkins in his latest book “A Devil’s Chaplain”.

Midgley attacks Dawkins’ meme idea, arguing that human beings are holistic beings and that a particulate method of understanding them is inappropriate. But isn’t denying the particulate viewpoint reducing the totality of the holistic whole?

I have read dozens of popular science books recently, this was the only time I got to the end of one and wondered why I had bothered picking it up:

A mountain then? – No! Only mist!

Edited by: PeterDF at: 8/25/03 5:45 pm
Back to top
Jeremy1952 Jeremy1952 has been starred
Doctorate
Bronze Contributor
Bronze Contributor





Joined: 27 Oct 2002

Posts: 594
Gender: Male
Location: Saint Louis


PostPosted: Sat Aug 30, 2003 4:42 pm    Post subject: Re: Alas Poor Darwin Reply with quote
PeterDF
Quote:
One of the writers seemed to think that, because his daughter was not afraid of spiders - and therefore not everyone is - there could not be a universal human behavioural trait for fear of spiders.
There is a rather famous series of experiments which should have laid this nonsense to rest; in fact it did, for most educated people. It was found that monkeys are not innately fearful of snakes. However, it is easy to teach a monkey to fear snakes, and difficult to teach it to fear flowers. Here is a more recent update, from the researcher who did the original work in 1992 (Mineka (1992) Evolutionary Memories, emotional processing, and the emotional disorders. The Psychology of Learning and Motivation, 28 161-206) The Malicious Serpent: Snakes as a prototypical stimulus for an evolved module of fear

Thanks for the review.

BTW: I slogged through Lewontin, Rose, Kamin Not In Our Genes on much the same principle: Someone of Lewontin's stature has to have a substantial defense of his position, doesn't he? No.


Science is neither a philosophy nor a belief system. It is a combination of mental operations that has become increasingly the habit of educated peoples, a culture of illuminations hit upon by a fortunate turn of history that yielded the most effective way of learning about the real world ever conceived. E.O.Wilson

Back to top
PeterDF PeterDF has been starred
Freshman





Joined: 07 Jul 2003

Posts: 214
Gender: Male



PostPosted: Sun Aug 31, 2003 12:41 pm    Post subject: Re: Alas Poor Darwin Reply with quote
And Rose attacks Pinker and co for politically motivated science.

The best case of pot calling I've heard for a long time:D

Back to top
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    BookTalk.org Forum Index -> Non-Fiction Book Suggestions & Polls  
Page 1 of 1


 
Recent Topics
» Chapter 13. House-Warming
by Saffron on Thu Aug 28, 2008 10:25 am

» Cannibalism
by Steingerd on Thu Aug 28, 2008 9:42 am

» NBC Poll - Remove "In God We Trust" from currency?
by Steingerd on Thu Aug 28, 2008 9:34 am

» Book review: Just 2 Seconds by Gavin de Becker
by Saffron on Thu Aug 28, 2008 9:03 am

» Walden is available for free online
by WildCityWoman on Thu Aug 28, 2008 9:00 am

» Exciting news from Mr. P.
by Frank 013 on Thu Aug 28, 2008 7:02 am

» Chapter 4. Sounds
by Thomas Hood on Thu Aug 28, 2008 12:05 am

» Our fiction section is slooow right now
by Grim on Wed Aug 27, 2008 11:00 pm

» Suggestions for our Oct. & Nov. non-fiction discussion
by Grim on Wed Aug 27, 2008 10:52 pm

» Chapter 5. Solitude
by DWill on Wed Aug 27, 2008 10:49 pm




BookTalk.org Suggests


Scheisshaus Luck: Surviving the Unspeakable in Auschwitz and Dora by Pierre Berg with Brian Brock

Beyond Reasonable Doubt by Geoff J. Henley

Palace Council by Stephen L. Carter

How to Get Rich as a Televangelist or Faith Healer by Bill Wilson

Silver: My Own Tale As Written by Me with a Goodly Amount of Murder by Edward Chupack

Rising Above The Influence: A True Story about Alcohol, Drugs, and Recovery by Stephen J. Della Valle

Are You Famous? Touring America with Alaska's Fiddling Poet by Ken Waldman

Sudden Death by Michael Balkind

Additional Book Suggestions


Poll
Have you ever parked in a handicapped spot?

Yes [4]
No [13]

You must login to vote


BookTalk.org is a book discussion group, also known as a reading group or book club. We read and talk about non-fiction books, as a group. Live author chats where book group members can interact with and interview authors are common. We often give away free books to our members in book giveaway contests. Our booktalks are open to everybody who enjoys booktalk.  Booktalk is a free online reading group that features quality book reviews, resources for readers and book lovers. Discussing books is our passion. Non-fiction chat, book forum, literature forum, or reading forum. Register a free book club account today. Suggest nonfiction books. Authors and publishers are welcome to plug their books or ask for an author chat or interview.

MAIN NAVIGATION

HOMEABOUTBOOKSTRANSCRIPTSOLD FORUMSLINKSBLOGSFAQDONATECONTACT

BOOKS WE HAVE DISCUSSED
• On Being Certain by Robert A. Burton • 50 reasons people give for believing in a god by Guy P. Harrison • Walden: Or, Life in the Woods by Henry David Thoreau • Exile and the Kingdom by Albert Camus • Our Inner Ape: A Leading Primatologist Explains Why We Are Who We Are by Frans de Waal • Your Inner Fish: A Journey into the 3.5-Billion-Year-History of the Human Body by Neil Shubin • No Country for Old Men by Cormac McCarthy • The Age of American Unreason by Susan Jacoby • Ten Theories of Human Nature by Leslie Stevenson & David Haberman • Heart of Darkness by Joseph Conrad • The Stuff of Thought: Language as a Window Into Human Nature by Stephen Pinker • A Thousand Splendid Suns by Khaled Hosseini • The Lucifer Effect: Understanding How Good People Turn Evil by Philip Zimbardo • Responsibility and Judgment by Hannah Arendt • Interventions by Noam Chomsky • Godless in America by George A. Ricker • Religious Expression and the American Constitution by Franklyn S. Haiman • Deep Economy: The Wealth of Communities and the Durable Future by Phil McKibben • The God Delusion by Richard DawkinsThe Third Chimpanzee: The Evolution and Future of the Human Animal by Jared DiamondThe Woman in the Dunes by Abe KoboEvolution vs. Creationism: An Introduction by Eugenie C. ScottThe Omnivore's Dilemma: A Natural History of Four Meals by Michael PollanI, Claudius : From the Autobiography of Tiberius Claudius, Born 10 B.C., Murdered and Deified A.D. 54 by Robert GravesBreaking The Spell: Religion as a Natural Phenomenon by Daniel C. DennettA Peace to End All Peace: The Fall of the Ottoman Empire and the Creation of the Modern Middle East Peace by David FromkinThe Time Traveler's Wife by Audrey NiffeneggerThe End of Faith: Religion, Terror, and the Future of Reason by Sam HarrisEnder's Game by Orson Scott CardThe Curious Incident of the Dog in the Night-Time by Mark HaddonValue and Virtue in a Godless Universe by Erik J. WielenbergThe March by E. L DoctorowThe Ethical Brain by Michael GazzanigaFreethinkers: A History of American Secularism by Susan JacobyCollapse: How Societies Choose to Fail or Succeed by Jared DiamondThe Battle for God by Karen ArmstrongThe Future of Life by Edward O. WilsonWhat is Good? The Search for the Best Way to Live by A. C. GraylingCivilization and Its Enemies: The Next Stage of History by Lee HarrisPale Blue Dot: A Vision of the Human Future in Space by Carl SaganHow We Believe: Science, Skepticism, and the Search for God by Michael ShermerLooking for Spinoza: Joy, Sorrow, and the Feeling Brain by Antonio DamasioLies and the Lying Liars Who Tell Them: A Fair and Balanced Look at the Right by Al FrankenThe Red Queen: Sex and the Evolution of Human Nature by Matt RidleyThe Blank Slate: The Modern Denial of Human Nature by Stephen PinkerUnweaving the Rainbow: Science, Delusion and the Appetite for Wonder by Richard DawkinsAtheism: A Reader edited by S.T. JoshiGlobal Brain: The Evolution of Mass Mind From the Big Bang To the 21st Century by Howard BloomThe Lucifer Principle: A Scientific Expedition into the Forces of Nature by Howard BloomGuns, Germs and Steel: The Fates of Human Societies by Jared DiamondThe Demon-Haunted World: Science as a Candle in the Dark by Carl SaganBury My Heart at Wounded Knee: An Indian History of the American West by Dee BrownFuture Shock by Alvin Toffler

OTHER PAGES
Baloney Detection KitBanned Book ListBook OrdersMassimo Pigliucci Rationally SpeakingOnline Reading GroupTop 10 Atheism Books

Copyright © BookTalk.org 2002-2008. All rights reserved.
Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2002 phpBB Group