Online reading group and book discussion forum
  HOME FORUMS BOOKS LINKS DONATE ADVERTISE CONTACT  
View unanswered posts | View active topics It is currently Thu Oct 30, 2014 7:11 am




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 8 posts ] • Topic evaluate: Evaluations: 0, 0.00 on the average.Evaluations: 0, 0.00 on the average.Evaluations: 0, 0.00 on the average.Evaluations: 0, 0.00 on the average.Evaluations: 0, 0.00 on the average. 
Ch. 3 - Genes, development and instinct 
Author Message
User avatar
Years of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membership
BookTalk.org Hall of Fame

BookTalk.org Owner
Diamond Contributor 3

Joined: May 2002
Posts: 14008
Location: Florida
Thanks: 1987
Thanked: 767 times in 607 posts
Gender: Male
Country: United States (us)
Highscores: 9

Post Ch. 3 - Genes, development and instinct
Ch. 3 - Genes, development and instinct



Sun Mar 18, 2012 8:54 pm
Profile Email YIM WWW
User avatar
Years of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membership
BookTalk.org Moderator

BookTalk.org Moderator
Silver Contributor

Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 1413
Thanks: 144
Thanked: 560 times in 415 posts
Gender: Male

Post Re: Ch. 3 - Genes, development and instinct
I feel like some of the arguments in evolutionary psychology are either reacting to strawman arguments or at least uninteresting ones. It talks about instinct and is arguing that environment is important as well as genetics. It mentions imprinting, where there is some learning involved with baby chicks in recognizing their mother and that it can go wrong. Therefore we can't say that it's purely genetic. But this seems pretty obvious.

Similarly it mentions taking the genes' eye view is not enough because there are environmental effects. But is anyone really suggesting otherwise?



Wed Apr 04, 2012 9:45 pm
Profile Email
User avatar
Years of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membership
Experienced

Silver Contributor

Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 106
Location: Gatineau, Quebec
Thanks: 31
Thanked: 63 times in 50 posts
Gender: Male
Country: Canada (ca)

Post Re: Ch. 3 - Genes, development and instinct
While both genes and environment are involved in development, it is the interaction between the two that I find so interesting. As the authors state:
“While it is true that most people take the interactionist view on board and are careful to emphasize the importance of both genes and environment, it is also true that many sometimes fail to appreciate the full implications of this standpoint”.

The authors give the example of the tendency of the media to simplify this complex process with reports on the discovery of the gene for athletic ability or sexual orientation.
It is clear that evolutionary psychology is showing us how complex the interaction of genes and environment really is. Their description of recent developments in the area of ‘instincts’ alone makes this book a worthwhile study. What were once thought to be fully formed inherited traits are now shown to include a learning component that begins well before birth!



Fri Apr 06, 2012 8:27 am
Profile Email
User avatar
Years of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membership
BookTalk.org Moderator

BookTalk.org Moderator
Silver Contributor

Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 1413
Thanks: 144
Thanked: 560 times in 415 posts
Gender: Male

Post Re: Ch. 3 - Genes, development and instinct
LevV wrote:

The authors give the example of the tendency of the media to simplify this complex process with reports on the discovery of the gene for athletic ability or sexual orientation.
It is clear that evolutionary psychology is showing us how complex the interaction of genes and environment really is. Their description of recent developments in the area of ‘instincts’ alone makes this book a worthwhile study. What were once thought to be fully formed inherited traits are now shown to include a learning component that begins well before birth!


That's true. But take sexual orientation -- I'm not that familiar with the empirical evidence on heritability, I did a quick Google search. I believe that in twin studies it shows that you don't have a 100% correlation. But to me, I still think of it as a genetic predisposition and I think of it as having a "genetic cause" even though the environment might affect whether those genes are expressed. I don't know if the author would say that's the wrong way to think about it.



Fri Apr 06, 2012 9:12 am
Profile Email
User avatar
Years of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membership
Experienced

Silver Contributor

Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 106
Location: Gatineau, Quebec
Thanks: 31
Thanked: 63 times in 50 posts
Gender: Male
Country: Canada (ca)

Post Re: Ch. 3 - Genes, development and instinct
I don’t think that the authors would disagree with your point that a particular gene may play a role in a predisposition toward a particular sexual orientation or any other trait for that matter. But look at what they say about the rest of the story:

"In most cases, traits are determined by a complex genetic cascade that involves a large number of genes as well as some aspects of the environment in which they develop, such as the order in which they are switched on and off. A gene may be involved in a particular trait not because it determines the trait but because it produces a particular effect that is crucial to the correct development of the trait."

In this paragraph, there are a few points that are left unclear. It may be because they wanted to keep this introductory book fairly short. For example, what exactly is the meaning of, “such as the order in which they are switched on and off”.

It looks like I’ll have to do a fair bit of additional research to fully appreciate this area of research into the human species.

My apologies for not including page numbers with my quotes. I'm reading this book on the program Kindle for PC (for the first time) and there is no indication of page numbers that would match the hard copy of the book.



The following user would like to thank LevV for this post:
DWill
Fri Apr 06, 2012 10:40 am
Profile Email
Years of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membership
Intelligent


Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 555
Location: Connecticut
Thanks: 76
Thanked: 87 times in 78 posts
Gender: Female
Country: United States (us)

Post Re: Ch. 3 - Genes, development and instinct
So far the book seems to be an argument that nature and nurture work together to assist in the development of the human. I never thought that it could be one or the other so it is interesting for me to see someone present this.



Mon Apr 23, 2012 2:44 pm
Profile
User avatar
Years of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membership
BookTalk.org Moderator

BookTalk.org Moderator
Silver Contributor

Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 1413
Thanks: 144
Thanked: 560 times in 415 posts
Gender: Male

Post Re: Ch. 3 - Genes, development and instinct
lindad_amato wrote:
So far the book seems to be an argument that nature and nurture work together to assist in the development of the human. I never thought that it could be one or the other so it is interesting for me to see someone present this.


The arguments often do seem like common sense, although I suppose there have been people arguing for one of the extreme positions



Mon Apr 23, 2012 9:14 pm
Profile Email
User avatar
Years of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membership
Experienced

Silver Contributor

Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 106
Location: Gatineau, Quebec
Thanks: 31
Thanked: 63 times in 50 posts
Gender: Male
Country: Canada (ca)

Post Re: Ch. 3 - Genes, development and instinct
Yes. With all the research that has been done in this area it seems pretty safe to say that genes and environment are more or less, equally important in determining the behaviour of humans. The authors are in agreement with this and then introduce us to some of the, “full implications of this standpoint”.

One outcome of the extension of this integrationist view they introduce us to is the development of the niche construction theory. This theory argues that a culturally learned behaviour can feed back on itself and have an effect on genes by acting as a source of selection. This theory is described more fully in chapter 2.
This theory is interesting to me because much of what I’ve read in this area suggests that human evolution came to a stop 50,000 years ago when homo sapiens emerged from Africa. Niche construction theory, on the other hand, suggests that humans play a more active role in the construction of their environment than was previously thought. I would like to see more of the evidence that supports this theory. It sounds like a very interesting area of research.



Wed Apr 25, 2012 7:10 am
Profile Email
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 8 posts ] • Topic evaluate: Evaluations: 0, 0.00 on the average.Evaluations: 0, 0.00 on the average.Evaluations: 0, 0.00 on the average.Evaluations: 0, 0.00 on the average.Evaluations: 0, 0.00 on the average. 



Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 0 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:


BookTalk.org Links 
Forum Rules & Tips
Frequently Asked Questions
BBCode Explained
Info for Authors & Publishers
Featured Book Suggestions
Author Interview Transcripts
Be a Book Discussion Leader!
    

Love to talk about books but don't have time for our book discussion forums? For casual book talk join us on Facebook.

Featured Books

Books by New Authors



Booktalk.org on Facebook 



BookTalk.org is a free book discussion group or online reading group or book club. We read and talk about both fiction and non-fiction books as a group. We host live author chats where booktalk members can interact with and interview authors. We give away free books to our members in book giveaway contests. Our booktalks are open to everybody who enjoys talking about books. Our book forums include book reviews, author interviews and book resources for readers and book lovers. Discussing books is our passion. We're a literature forum, or reading forum. Register a free book club account today! Suggest nonfiction and fiction books. Authors and publishers are welcome to advertise their books or ask for an author chat or author interview.


Navigation 
MAIN NAVIGATION

HOMEFORUMSBOOKSTRANSCRIPTSOLD FORUMSADVERTISELINKSFAQDONATETERMS OF USEPRIVACY POLICY

BOOK FORUMS FOR ALL BOOKS WE HAVE DISCUSSED
Sense and Goodness Without God - by Richard CarrierFrankenstein - by Mary ShelleyThe Big Questions - by Simon BlackburnScience Was Born of Christianity - by Stacy TrasancosThe Happiness Hypothesis - by Jonathan HaidtA Game of Thrones - by George R. R. MartinTempesta's Dream - by Vincent LoCocoWhy Nations Fail - by Daron Acemoglu and James RobinsonThe Drowning Girl - Caitlin R. KiernanThe Consolations of the Forest - by Sylvain TessonThe Complete Heretic's Guide to Western Religion: The Mormons - by David FitzgeraldA Portrait of the Artist as a Young Man - by James JoyceThe Divine Comedy - by Dante AlighieriThe Magic of Reality - by Richard DawkinsDubliners - by James JoyceMy Name Is Red - by Orhan PamukThe World Until Yesterday - by Jared DiamondThe Man Who Was Thursday - by by G. K. ChestertonThe Better Angels of Our Nature by Steven PinkerLord Jim by Joseph ConradThe Hobbit by J. R. R. TolkienThe Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy by Douglas AdamsAtlas Shrugged by Ayn RandThinking, Fast and Slow - by Daniel KahnemanThe Righteous Mind - by Jonathan HaidtWorld War Z: An Oral History of the Zombie War by Max BrooksMoby Dick: or, the Whale by Herman MelvilleA Visit from the Goon Squad by Jennifer EganLost Memory of Skin: A Novel by Russell BanksThe Structure of Scientific Revolutions by Thomas S. KuhnHobbes: Leviathan by Thomas HobbesThe House of the Spirits - by Isabel AllendeArguably: Essays by Christopher HitchensThe Falls: A Novel (P.S.) by Joyce Carol OatesChrist in Egypt by D.M. MurdockThe Glass Bead Game: A Novel by Hermann HesseA Devil's Chaplain by Richard DawkinsThe Hero with a Thousand Faces by Joseph CampbellThe Brothers Karamazov by Fyodor DostoyevskyThe Adventures of Huckleberry Finn by Mark TwainThe Moral Landscape by Sam HarrisThe Decameron by Giovanni BoccaccioThe Road by Cormac McCarthyThe Grand Design by Stephen HawkingThe Evolution of God by Robert WrightThe Tin Drum by Gunter GrassGood Omens by Neil GaimanPredictably Irrational by Dan ArielyThe Wind-Up Bird Chronicle: A Novel by Haruki MurakamiALONE: Orphaned on the Ocean by Richard Logan & Tere Duperrault FassbenderDon Quixote by Miguel De CervantesMusicophilia by Oliver SacksDiary of a Madman and Other Stories by Nikolai GogolThe Passion of the Western Mind by Richard TarnasThe Left Hand of Darkness by Ursula K. Le GuinThe Genius of the Beast by Howard BloomAlice's Adventures in Wonderland by Lewis Carroll Empire of Illusion by Chris HedgesThe Sound and the Fury by William Faulkner The Extended Phenotype by Richard DawkinsSmoke and Mirrors by Neil GaimanThe Selfish Gene by Richard DawkinsWhen Good Thinking Goes Bad by Todd C. RinioloHouse of Leaves by Mark Z. DanielewskiAmerican Gods: A Novel by Neil GaimanPrimates and Philosophers by Frans de WaalThe Enormous Room by E.E. CummingsThe Picture of Dorian Gray by Oscar WildeGod Is Not Great: How Religion Poisons Everything by Christopher HitchensThe Name of the Rose by Umberto Eco Dreams From My Father by Barack Obama Paradise Lost by John Milton Bad Money by Kevin PhillipsThe Secret Garden by Frances Hodgson BurnettGodless: How an Evangelical Preacher Became One of America's Leading Atheists by Dan BarkerThe Things They Carried by Tim O'BrienThe Limits of Power by Andrew BacevichLolita by Vladimir NabokovOrlando by Virginia Woolf On Being Certain by Robert A. Burton50 reasons people give for believing in a god by Guy P. HarrisonWalden: Or, Life in the Woods by Henry David ThoreauExile and the Kingdom by Albert CamusOur Inner Ape by Frans de WaalYour Inner Fish by Neil ShubinNo Country for Old Men by Cormac McCarthyThe Age of American Unreason by Susan JacobyTen Theories of Human Nature by Leslie Stevenson & David HabermanHeart of Darkness by Joseph ConradThe Stuff of Thought by Stephen PinkerA Thousand Splendid Suns by Khaled HosseiniThe Lucifer Effect by Philip ZimbardoResponsibility and Judgment by Hannah ArendtInterventions by Noam ChomskyGodless in America by George A. RickerReligious Expression and the American Constitution by Franklyn S. HaimanDeep Economy by Phil McKibbenThe God Delusion by Richard DawkinsThe Third Chimpanzee by Jared DiamondThe Woman in the Dunes by Abe KoboEvolution vs. Creationism by Eugenie C. ScottThe Omnivore's Dilemma by Michael PollanI, Claudius by Robert GravesBreaking The Spell by Daniel C. DennettA Peace to End All Peace by David FromkinThe Time Traveler's Wife by Audrey NiffeneggerThe End of Faith by Sam HarrisEnder's Game by Orson Scott CardThe Curious Incident of the Dog in the Night-Time by Mark HaddonValue and Virtue in a Godless Universe by Erik J. WielenbergThe March by E. L DoctorowThe Ethical Brain by Michael GazzanigaFreethinkers: A History of American Secularism by Susan JacobyCollapse: How Societies Choose to Fail or Succeed by Jared DiamondThe Battle for God by Karen ArmstrongThe Future of Life by Edward O. WilsonWhat is Good? by A. C. GraylingCivilization and Its Enemies by Lee HarrisPale Blue Dot by Carl SaganHow We Believe: Science, Skepticism, and the Search for God by Michael ShermerLooking for Spinoza by Antonio DamasioLies and the Lying Liars Who Tell Them by Al FrankenThe Red Queen by Matt RidleyThe Blank Slate by Stephen PinkerUnweaving the Rainbow by Richard DawkinsAtheism: A Reader edited by S.T. JoshiGlobal Brain by Howard BloomThe Lucifer Principle by Howard BloomGuns, Germs and Steel by Jared DiamondThe Demon-Haunted World by Carl SaganBury My Heart at Wounded Knee by Dee BrownFuture Shock by Alvin Toffler

OTHER PAGES WORTH EXPLORING
Banned Book ListOur Amazon.com SalesMassimo Pigliucci Rationally SpeakingOnline Reading GroupTop 10 Atheism BooksFACTS Book Selections

cron
Copyright © BookTalk.org 2002-2014. All rights reserved.
Website developed by MidnightCoder.ca
Display Pagerank