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The insult of disbelief 
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Post Re: The insult of disbelief
The ground is not solid.

Excellent example.

The ground really is NOT solid, as you all know. Most times we don't even think about this fact. The ground is nothing but piles of particulate and get something heavy enough and it will part for it like water. Not even those individual particles are "solid".

But what counts here, and what i think works as an excellent concept to extend to scientific confidence is that while the ground is not actually "solid", for all our purposes it might as well be. Nobody will just fall through a wall, even though it is primarily empty space. So while a completely accurate understanding of the structures that underlie the macro world tells us things are not as they appear, we can still use our more or less accurate understanding of the circumstances, and reliably use those approximate, though demonstrably incomplete, understandings to predict how our actions will have consequences with certainties that approach 100% to such a degree that the chances against are so minuscule as to be ignored except under the most extreme circumstances.


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In the absence of God, I found Man.
-Guillermo Del Torro

Have you tried that? Looking for answers?
Or have you been content to be terrified of a thing you know nothing about?

Are you pushing your own short comings on us and safely hating them from a distance?

Is this the virtue of faith? To never change your mind: especially when you should?

Young Earth Creationists take offense at the idea that we have a common heritage with other animals. Why is being the descendant of a mud golem any better?

Confidence being an expectation built on past experience, evidence and extrapolation to the future. Faith being an expectation held in defiance of past experience and evidence.


Sat Oct 29, 2011 11:14 am
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Post Re: The insult of disbelief
Atheists are distrusted and disliked by the religious.
See below.

http://www.theblaze.com/stories/study-r ... o-rapists/

I was recently asked not to reveal to my grandmother that i don't believe in god. They just kept telling me it would be very bad to tell her.

It isn't as though i want to run over there and rub it in her face that there is no god. I don't bring it up when i go to visit her, because really, what would be the point? But if she asks me, and one polite deflection doesn't satisfy her, then she had better be prepared for the truth. If you don't want to know, then don't go asking.

Here's the thing that pisses me off about this scenario.

I know she's a christian. Doesn't bother me in the least. If she was a hindu, or a muslim, still no problem with me.

If she finds out I'm not a believer, though, what happens? Does she yell? Does she try to force a conversion through petty extortion through family members? Does she dis-own me for not being part of her flock?

Any one of these reactions is completely un-acceptable behavior for an adult. But who do you think would be looked down upon in this scenario?

My grandmother for having a freak out? or me for telling the honest truth?

Who do you think would be blamed for the unrest, when it is she who will have a melt-down and cause a scene? Who do you think would be cast as the bad guy for HER inability to see things a different way, and to accept others for what they are?

How am I insulting her by my simple lack of belief?

I wouldn't be getting into a theological discussion with her, trying to show her the difference between belief and knowledge, for instance. Or the lack of historical support for the Jesus of the bible. Or exposing the bewildering nonsense of the bible for her to bring a critical mind to bear on the topic.

I would simply say that i don't believe, and yet that would be enough to cause some kind of frackus in the family, judging by the spooky face my father and siblings give me every time i show up at family gatherings.

Who is insulting here? My calm disbelief, or the hysterical condemnations of a deluded believer?


_________________
In the absence of God, I found Man.
-Guillermo Del Torro

Have you tried that? Looking for answers?
Or have you been content to be terrified of a thing you know nothing about?

Are you pushing your own short comings on us and safely hating them from a distance?

Is this the virtue of faith? To never change your mind: especially when you should?

Young Earth Creationists take offense at the idea that we have a common heritage with other animals. Why is being the descendant of a mud golem any better?

Confidence being an expectation built on past experience, evidence and extrapolation to the future. Faith being an expectation held in defiance of past experience and evidence.


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tat tvam asi, youkrst
Sun Dec 04, 2011 9:16 am
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Post Re: The insult of disbelief
The deluded believer is at fault...


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Last edited by tat tvam asi on Tue Feb 14, 2012 4:59 pm, edited 2 times in total.



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Sun Dec 04, 2011 9:36 am
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Post Re: The insult of disbelief
My apologies, Tat.

Too bad she fell into that trap.

Quote:
It sounds like you're amping up for the Holidays.


You think this was bad?

post99686.html#p99686

haha!


_________________
In the absence of God, I found Man.
-Guillermo Del Torro

Have you tried that? Looking for answers?
Or have you been content to be terrified of a thing you know nothing about?

Are you pushing your own short comings on us and safely hating them from a distance?

Is this the virtue of faith? To never change your mind: especially when you should?

Young Earth Creationists take offense at the idea that we have a common heritage with other animals. Why is being the descendant of a mud golem any better?

Confidence being an expectation built on past experience, evidence and extrapolation to the future. Faith being an expectation held in defiance of past experience and evidence.


Sun Dec 04, 2011 10:02 am
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Post Re: The insult of disbelief
"You've confused religious persecution with not always getting everything that you want."

http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/mon-f ... ss_tdsvids

The insult of disbelief is seen in the above as well. Not believing as they do, and insisting that they cannot dominate you is somehow persecution of a religion.


_________________
In the absence of God, I found Man.
-Guillermo Del Torro

Have you tried that? Looking for answers?
Or have you been content to be terrified of a thing you know nothing about?

Are you pushing your own short comings on us and safely hating them from a distance?

Is this the virtue of faith? To never change your mind: especially when you should?

Young Earth Creationists take offense at the idea that we have a common heritage with other animals. Why is being the descendant of a mud golem any better?

Confidence being an expectation built on past experience, evidence and extrapolation to the future. Faith being an expectation held in defiance of past experience and evidence.


Tue Feb 14, 2012 4:54 pm
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Post Re: The insult of disbelief
johnson1010 wrote:
. . . I know she's a christian. Doesn't bother me in the least. If she was a hindu, or a muslim, still no problem with me.

If she finds out I'm not a believer, though, what happens? Does she yell? Does she try to force a conversion through petty extortion through family members? Does she dis-own me for not being part of her flock?

Any one of these reactions is completely un-acceptable behavior for an adult. But who do you think would be looked down upon in this scenario?

My grandmother for having a freak out? or me for telling the honest truth?


We're born with the absence of belief and, yet, being an atheist is somehow seen as a hideous condition. I think that believers feel threatened by anyone not willing to go along with their delusions. And our society even today is still Christian-centric, at least in many places, including where I live in the Bible Belt. I don't share my lack of religious belief with anyone, but people think nothing about proclaiming thanks to God or pray in public, assuming that everybody believes the same thing.

I was thinking about language, how the definitions of words are basically shared by a culture. And we attempt to do the same with religious beliefs. If only everybody would go along with it, then we could go maintaining our delusions. Atheists are the ones willing to say that the emperor has no clothes and it makes believers very uncomfortable.


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Tue Feb 14, 2012 5:06 pm
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Post Re: The insult of disbelief
If you come from a Republican/conservative family and you say you're a Democrat and liberal, you get a reaction that can be almost as extreme, although your family doesn't say your soul is in peril (I think?). They probably think you're just stupid and gullible instead of wicked. I truly admire the Confucian attitude toward religious believing. Confucians would say, "Why do you talk about this God and what happens after you die? You don't even understand life." And the strange thing is that most people, even the strongest believers in a supernatural god and in the afterlife of the soul, are entirely practical otherwise, even very secular. It's a weird tic they have about that other business.


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No, it is impossible; it is impossible to convey the life-sensation of any given epoch of one's existence--that which makes its truth, its meaning--its subtle penetrating essence. It is impossible. We live as we dream--alone.

Joseph Conrad, The Heart of Darkness


Last edited by DWill on Sun Feb 19, 2012 6:31 pm, edited 2 times in total.



Tue Feb 14, 2012 11:12 pm
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Post Re: The insult of disbelief
I'm anxious to share this clip and didn't quite know where to put it. I hope this thread is appropriate and that you don't mind my intrusion.

NewsThump » Baroness Warsi condemns rise in ‘militant’ clear thought and logic
http://www.newsthump.com
Baroness Warsi has bitterly condemned 'an alarming increase' in thinking about two alternative explanations of why we're here, and then choosing one based on logic, reason and evidence.


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Prejudice, a dirty word, and faith, a clean one, have something in common: they both begin where reason ends.

Harper Lee - Go set a Watchman


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Wed Feb 15, 2012 6:28 am
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Post Re: The insult of disbelief
Quote:
With many Christians’ understanding of the law being based on their own interpretation of the Bible, Mr Pickles went on to criticise rulings that have been “intolerant” of a Christians right to open up a bed and breakfast to the public, but refuse to let gay couples stay there.


Haha!

Exactly.


_________________
In the absence of God, I found Man.
-Guillermo Del Torro

Have you tried that? Looking for answers?
Or have you been content to be terrified of a thing you know nothing about?

Are you pushing your own short comings on us and safely hating them from a distance?

Is this the virtue of faith? To never change your mind: especially when you should?

Young Earth Creationists take offense at the idea that we have a common heritage with other animals. Why is being the descendant of a mud golem any better?

Confidence being an expectation built on past experience, evidence and extrapolation to the future. Faith being an expectation held in defiance of past experience and evidence.


Sat Feb 18, 2012 10:51 am
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Post Re: The insult of disbelief
Quote:
While Warsi admits that religion has brought mankind massive wars, terrorism, brutal totalitarian states, oppression, torture, divided communities and Aled Jones – however she also believes it gives people hope.

“We want a return to traditional values based on fear, literal translation of allegories about goats and going to war with people who prefer slightly different stories to us”, demanded Warsi.

“I’m just glad England’s God gave us the power to develop sophisticated weapons systems.”


:lol: :angry: :lol:



Sat Feb 18, 2012 9:40 pm
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