Pinker endorses Deus Project

udcdeist · Getting comfortable Joined: 14 Jul 2003 Posts: 6 Gender:

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Timothy Schoonover · Sophomore Joined: 22 Nov 2002 Posts: 269 Gender:

Without being premature, I want to issue a reserved and uncommited, "WOOHOO, CONTROVERSY!! BRING FORTH THE GORE AND GALLANTRY!"

I hope Pinker's theories are such that we can rip each other to shreds in understanding them. Then again, I expect to be disappointed, which I guess is a compliment to Pinker either way that you look at it.

Meme Wars · Posted: Thu Jul 17, 2003 8:00 pm Post subject: Re: Pinker endorses Deus Project

Carl Sagan and Steven Pinker endorse the modern Deist movement? Bizzaar!

I don't think they were claiming to be deists, just happy to see this movement as a positive alternative to the rest of the religions out there. I am quite certain Sagan was an atheist, and Pinker's writings give no hint of deist leanings.

Meme Wars

tarav · Posted: Mon Jul 21, 2003 11:09 am Post subject: Re: Pinker endorses Deus Project

i'm only on chapter 7 of Blank Slate, however I would not have suspected that Pinker believes in GOD! I hope that Meme is correct and Pinker is looking at Deus Project as a lesser of evils!

Chris OConnor · Posted: Tue Jul 22, 2003 1:48 pm Post subject: Re: Pinker endorses Deus Project

Perhaps we will have the opportunity to ask Pinker ourselves. I have a feeling Pinker is an atheist, but we shall see. Deism is a respectable position in that it makes no attempt to create doctrines and tenets by which we should live our lives, and claim they are the word of God. Deists simply consider the cosmos too grand to exist without the hand of an intelligent creator. They don't try to define this creator. As far as theists go...they are the most rational in my opinion.

Chris

"When once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward,for there you have been, and there you will always want to be." -- Leonardo da Vinci

Timothy Schoonover · Sophomore Joined: 22 Nov 2002 Posts: 269 Gender:

I think that this is probably the case. Perhaps the most effective means of rendering the maladies of religion impotent is not through direct opposition, but through internal subversion. This is an interesting thought and raises the question: What is the best way to internally subvert and subsequently ineffectualize religious institutions?

I have suggested in the past that postmodernism is uniquely suited for this end, although it introduces dangers of its own. Deism seems to be another viable alternative. Any other thoughts or ideas?

udcdeist · Getting comfortable Joined: 14 Jul 2003 Posts: 6 Gender:

This is precisely what we are trying to do.
The "theology" of deism is all postmodernism - the battle we are waging is against certainty itself, proclaiming that we can substitute a benign "faith of the heart" or faith in humankind and the possibilities we have for improving the world we live in and working towards a better future. Where does "uncertainty" come in? Here is the logic - in the Deist worldview, God created the universe and the laws that govern it, it has evolved to its current state by following laws, and has fortunately produced us humans with our intelligence and free will and ability to love and be loved, with nothing but the laws of nature (not even God itself) holding us back from doing anything we want - for better or worse. We haven't got everything figured out, there is no Bible or other book that offers up answers to everything, and it is this uncertainty that drives us, even the uncertainty about God itself, trying to understand it and its intentions, that is the exact opposite of traditional faith yet can replace it so well. Uncertainty at the core of a religion is a fundamental frameshift, a seismic event, and it is the key I believe to making religion safe - certainty closes minds and opens the door to hatred, uncertainty keeps us questioning, keeps us wondering, keeps us alive and gives us respect for every individual among mankind, for no one knows the Truth, no one has a direct connection to God, each of us holds a piece of the puzzle, as each of us has a unique mind, a mind that is the culmination of eons of evolution and wondrous physical principles that themselves act in an uncertain manner at the subatomic level. The only tool we have to create our future is our own minds, the only tool we have to see and understand the universe is our own minds, and there are so many out there, each with a unique perspective, each of them seeking happiness, to love and be loved - this line is the making of the religion of the future, the first religion of its kind, a religion built in accord with human nature, not against it.

Edited by: udcdeist at: 8/8/03 11:25 pm

PeterDF · Freshman Joined: 07 Jul 2003 Posts: 214 Gender:

My problem with deism is - why do we need God in the middle of our understanding of the Universe? The proposal of a god as the instigator of creation is a highly anthropocentric argument. If you look at the evidence dispassionately it is absurd to propose a complex sentient being as a creator because of the problem of infinite regression.

We can still have a world view based on compassion, human rights, human dignity and respect for each other whether or not we put a god in the middle of it.

Chris OConnor · Posted: Tue Jul 29, 2003 10:10 am Post subject: Re: Pinker endorses Deus Project

Peter

I completely agree. God is the answer for people who lack the integrity, intellect, and energy to seek real answers. Why answer one mystery with an even more mysterious answer? This is hardly logical. If anyone can find something on the Internet which states Pinker's views I would love to read it.

Chris

"When once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward,for there you have been, and there you will always want to be." -- Leonardo da Vinci

PeterDF · Freshman Joined: 07 Jul 2003 Posts: 214 Gender:

CHRIS

I Understand that Pinker's position is that he is from a Jewish background but that he has renounced his faith - which suggests that he is an atheist.

Towards the end of The Blank Slate he attacks postmodernism and I know that he rejects postmodernistic relativism in that he certainly believes that there are things that we can know about the world.

(Dawkins has a powerful demolition of postmodernism in "A Devil's Chaplain")

Edited by: PeterDF at: 7/29/03 11:58 am


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