Personal Revelation

biomystic · Thu Sep 08, 2011 8:22 am

You are right in that one's personal revelation is highly subject to inflated cosmic value which is one of the reasons I didn't grow long hair and beard and run around with a staff looking starry eyed shouting my dire warnings and astonishing visions and assorted cosmic consciousness virtues to the world for quite a few years, kept the day job thank you very much and raised a family before going off my nut for Christs sake. But then it did happen. Lo and behold one of my grand visions that took me finally after 14 years (these 14's show up in my spiritual life, half the lunar cycle..as they do in the Gospels) to the Holy Land to complete did this fairly miraculous thing: over 500 people I didn't know from Adam, couldn't speak their language nor they mine for most of them, yet this spiritual item, a new religious icon that I created on God's inspiration just wowed them. So much so they honored it and me, 500 Palestinian Israelis Christians in the courtyard of St. John's Church in Nazareth, Israel on Easter eight years ago. My personal gnosis had jumped from my own brain experience to affecting other people and this is how you tell the difference between self-delusion and true movement of the Spirit. If it's real, other people pick it up and it spreads. If it's not, then it just sits in your head or you write it down, say publish it in a book, but nothing happens outside your mind about whatever you've experienced, whatever you've said about it no matter how profound you think it is. Except maybe if you're adding to a resume for a job position without divine intervention in your work, without others becoming "in-spired" by what you've done, there is no proof of your spiritual reality affecting material existence in any way outside your own mind. This doesn't mean every tele-evangelist waving his arms to thousands of Jesus-crazed rally attendees has the Spirit behind them, they have the mob spirit for sure, but it's the long term effect that shows the real deal, i.e. something new in the world that changes it in a historic way. This of course limits our ability to judge things happening in our own lifetimes but that's for others not so spiritually driven to consider. Me, I'm on point duty, pointing to the changeover events marking the entry of the new aeon, the prophesied and expected arrival of our new age.

Interbane · Thu Sep 08, 2011 11:24 am


	Quote: I think not because I've experienced spiritual reality and it took only three days of it to wipe out 35 years of atheist disbelief.

A subjective experience changed your beliefs? There are many atheists who have had spiritual experiences and become theists. The trend is that none are former freethinkers, or critical thinkers. Awareness of bias and the minefield of false reasoning is something to brag about, mere atheism is not worth mentioning. Otherwise, a person could be an "atheist" for false reasons or based on false conclusions. It's actually very common, and almost as frustrating to see as the void of thought it takes to accept religious ideas.

Going out on a limb about your experiences, I'll let you know how a critical thinker would process strange events. For example, if a girlfriend I had in North Dakota 10 years ago suddenly fell from the sky on my way to work(I live in California) and hit my vehicle while I was flying down the freeway, I wouldn't search for "meaning". The meaning is right there, embedded in the physics of our universe. It's just that most people don't have the capacity to understand how things work well enough to know that such events are inevitable. This is true even if my ex were to survive the fall/crash. It is true even if I hear that her husband up in North Dakota was kicked in the head by a cow and killed around the same time on that same day. It holds true even if I were to arrive home that same day and find my mother's wedding ring in the mail, send to me on a whim by my sister. There is nothing mystical here, only your inability to understand the universe you live in. The "meaning", the ascription of meaning to disparate events that form a pattern, is a survival function that we'd die without. The enormously improbable odds turn out to be probable when you understand how things work.


	Quote: Science couldn't explain what had happened to me as science doesn't even recognize synchronicity events happen.

Epistemology can explain it. Your experiences were entirely subjective and internal, most likely a misunderstanding of bias and probability.


	Quote: If it's real, other people pick it up and it spreads. If it's not, then it just sits in your head or you write it down, say publish it in a book, but nothing happens outside your mind about whatever you've experienced, whatever you've said about it no matter how profound you think it is.

So if it inspires action in others, it is not fiction. Is this what you're saying? That because L. Ron Hubbard's Thetans have inspired others, the Thetans are thus real? Or does this rubric only apply to the spirits you believe in? Or do you rule out Thetans because the inspiration must be over longer periods of time. Such as the influence of Roman myths? Or Norse myths? This material, or parts of it, were the revelations of some certain ancestors of ours. What of Buddhist ideas that have inspired millions, have been around a long time, and was likely personal revelation(piecemeal). Is there truth in the idea that we will be reborn into a cow? Or is it not possible that this religiously themed idea was a product of some man's revelation?

Your rubric legitimizes all sorts of nonsensical ideas. Of course, you will have other criteria that you've fabricated which you "use" to sort the true from the false so that it accords to what you already believe. How do you harmonize Buddhism, for example?

biomystic · Thu Sep 08, 2011 3:51 pm

Interbane wrote:


	Quote: I think not because I've experienced spiritual reality and it took only three days of it to wipe out 35 years of atheist disbelief.

A subjective experience changed your beliefs? There are many atheists who have had spiritual experiences and become theists. The trend is that none are former freethinkers, or critical thinkers. Awareness of bias and the minefield of false reasoning is something to brag about, mere atheism is not worth mentioning. Otherwise, a person could be an "atheist" for false reasons or based on false conclusions. It's actually very common, and almost as frustrating to see as the void of thought it takes to accept religious ideas.

Going out on a limb about your experiences, I'll let you know how a critical thinker would process strange events. For example, if a girlfriend I had in North Dakota 10 years ago suddenly fell from the sky on my way to work(I live in California) and hit my vehicle while I was flying down the freeway, I wouldn't search for "meaning". The meaning is right there, embedded in the physics of our universe. It's just that most people don't have the capacity to understand how things work well enough to know that such events are inevitable. This is true even if my ex were to survive the fall/crash. It is true even if I hear that her husband up in North Dakota was kicked in the head by a cow and killed around the same time on that same day. It holds true even if I were to arrive home that same day and find my mother's wedding ring in the mail, send to me on a whim by my sister. There is nothing mystical here, only your inability to understand the universe you live in. The "meaning", the ascription of meaning to disparate events that form a pattern, is a survival function that we'd die without. The enormously improbable odds turn out to be probable when you understand how things work.


	Quote: Science couldn't explain what had happened to me as science doesn't even recognize synchronicity events happen.

Epistemology can explain it. Your experiences were entirely subjective and internal, most likely a misunderstanding of bias and probability.


	Quote: If it's real, other people pick it up and it spreads. If it's not, then it just sits in your head or you write it down, say publish it in a book, but nothing happens outside your mind about whatever you've experienced, whatever you've said about it no matter how profound you think it is.

So if it inspires action in others, it is not fiction. Is this what you're saying? That because L. Ron Hubbard's Thetans have inspired others, the Thetans are thus real? Or does this rubric only apply to the spirits you believe in? Or do you rule out Thetans because the inspiration must be over longer periods of time. Such as the influence of Roman myths? Or Norse myths? This material, or parts of it, were the revelations of some certain ancestors of ours. What of Buddhist ideas that have inspired millions, have been around a long time, and was likely personal revelation(piecemeal). Is there truth in the idea that we will be reborn into a cow? Or is it not possible that this religiously themed idea was a product of some man's revelation?

Your rubric legitimizes all sorts of nonsensical ideas. Of course, you will have other criteria that you've fabricated which you "use" to sort the true from the false so that it accords to what you already believe. How do you harmonize Buddhism, for example?

More and more strawmen..

My religious conversion of undergoing three days of continuous synchronicity experiences cannot be dismissed as "entirely subjective and internal, most likely a misunderstanding of bias and probability". This is typical shallow atheist analysis and untrue as any reading of the work of Carl Jung would inform you. Or do you dismiss Jung's work in line with your atheist viewpoint? I don't and many millions of people do not as well.

biomystic · Thu Sep 08, 2011 4:10 pm

Robert Tulip wrote:


	FTL99 wrote: I'd just like to put in a request to split this thread as we are being led off topic more and more. I'd suggest splitting it from biomystic's first post towards the bottom of page 5. It sounds like biomystic would like his own thread anyway.

I think biomystic has actually raised a couple of legitimate questions for this thread:
1. How does mythicism handle claims of the existence of Christ?
2. How does mythicism react to claims of religious inspiration?

I found it surprising that biomystic started off by accepting the logic that Abraham is a myth simply because of the obvious link between his name and India, but then turned around and argued that Jesus Christ is not a myth, clutching at straws to justify this evemerist belief. To be consistent, recognition of the mythic nature of Abraham puts the entire Biblical psychology into radical question, and makes any evemerist argument fairly irrelevant to an understanding of the actual production of the Gospels. In my view, there is also a probable etymological connection between Christ and Krishna, with both representing the myth of the anointed one. So the Indian link for Judeo-Christian dogma is comprehensive, and it is really only racism (eg the false Max Muller Aryan argument) that prevents theology from recognising Indian sources. Similarly racism is the main thing preventing recognition of Egyptian sources for Christian dogma. Upholders of Western Civilization continue to regard Athens as the cradle, mediated by Jerusalem, with everyone else excluded from the pantheon.

Now, as to Biomystic's arguments about being inspired by God. I think he has a point that science struggles to understand synchronicity, and that the scientific worldview has limits regarding explaining human psychology. However, to postulate a supernatural entity to explain these problems has no basis except imagination. It is far better to say that while science may be limited, we should expect that religious phenomena can in principle be explained or understood in ways that are compatible with science. Indeed, complexity theory is one area that looks fruitful regarding an explanation of synchronicity. God is a myth, not a supernatural entity. Trying to understand reality by introducing entities whose existence contradicts our scientific observation can produce only confusion. We have a parsimonious explanation for belief in God as a result of the psychology of wish fulfillment in pre-scientific eras. All supernatural and miraculous claims are obsolete.

And yet, biomystic's claims of inspiration remain interesting, especially since he links it to mythicist theories of Abraham and to ideas of a new age. Here we get into the problem of whether mythicism is merely descriptive (stating the facts about the evolution of religion) or if it also has normative value (suggesting a future path). Generally, normative doctrine relies on inspiration to some extent. It is an interesting question whether such inspiration can be purely scientific, or whether it needs to draw in resources from myth.

It's always a wonder to me how atheists can just dismiss spiritual consciousness so easily when they should be wondering why they don't have it seeing how Nature evolved our human brains to process spiritual phenomena. It really is like color blind people telling those who can see colors that colors do not exist, it's a black and white and shades of grey world. Until atheists have had religious experiences, have had their brain's inherent spiritual capacity switched on, they just do not know what they're talking about. I was that way for many years but I got my spiritual processor turned on and once on, you just never can go backwards to a lesser consciousness, to a black and white and grey world when you've seen glorious colors.

As for accepting the Abrahamic stories as myths, yes, I do that, and do it for the Gospel stories as well. But having experienced God and the Spirit of Christ for myself I do recognize spiritual reality as something very real even while the way we have come to learn about it is from old spiritual experiences turned into mythic tales much redacted for politically based religious reasons. The Spirit of Christ is very real to me as it has motivated me time and again and provided me with visions of a new spiritual awakening. Can't get that stuff by book learnin'. You can get an understanding of how these ancient spiritual experiences were transmitted through time and cultures with research but the actual spiritual experience cannot be attained or understood without having gone through it. And that experience I can almost guarantee is something that will change the mind of the most adamant atheist.

tat tvam asi · Thu Sep 08, 2011 11:33 pm

Wow. The delusion meter just went off the scale.

biomystic · Thu Sep 08, 2011 11:54 pm


	tat tvam asi wrote: Wow. The delusion meter just went off the scale.

Are you referring to yours? I mean how long is it going to take atheists to wake up to the fact that atheist belief is no different from any fundamentalist mindset given the fact that science shows spiritual consciousness in human beings has evolved along side all the way through our species technological and intellectual progress. You ever hear of the God Gene? To think it only imaginery, to still believe human brains only imagine spiritual phenomena, making up fantasies out of nothing, well, holding that atheist position given recent brain study findings I think is the real delusion in our times. Again, people who have never experienced spiritual consciousness, never gone through a religious awakening, have zero credibility to make any judgments about it or people who are not so mentally disabled.

youkrst · Fri Sep 09, 2011 2:04 am


	Quote: But having experienced God

i have no doubt you experienced something, and you refer to this something as God

but isn't that the trouble with words, especially the G word, it is simply a reference, but one mans god is another mans devil so it needs plenty of explaining to pin it down as exactly what the reference is to.

ok you've experienced something you call god

is it more of a person type god or the transcendant mystery behind existence that cannot be quantified type of god.

is it the "i see you wanking" kind of god or the "i and the father are one" kinda thing

is it both and yet neither one nor t'other (see you reach a point where words need explaining)

you see the sort of trouble words entail, it takes a lot of hard work on the part of speaker and listener to gain clarity and focus and an accurate transference of concept.

for example if a resplendant vision appears to a person in the west he might say "i've seen jesus" but in the east he might say "i've seen krishna" or "i saw buddha"

then someone else might reply "all three the same, three references to same thing" and a fistfight might break out (metaphorically)

the trouble maker is the brain, it thinks it is running the show but it is just a secondary organ of consciousness. it is trying to interpret what is very tricky to interpret.

i have my interpretation but the experience i am trying to interpret IS NOT my interpretation

it's the other way around (lol)

(BTW: does this deity of yours endorse nickelback? that would be a black mark against him in my book, indeed grounds for instant dismissal)

PS: see, all this just from "but having experienced god". Only 4 words from one post.

i'm a lot like you in that i have had profound spontaneous mystical visions but interpreting them more adequately took a hell of a lot of hard yards, the experience hasn't changed but the interpretation is constantly being refined.

tat tvam asi · Fri Sep 09, 2011 8:22 am

Evolution ha. Yes humans have evolved to cope with our natural fear of death and the great unknown. It's led to all sorts of "visions" and "revelations" if you will. The mind seeking a comfort zone. I agree that many really believe they've experienced something profound, however, 'all of the gods and demons, heavens, purgatory, hell, are within you and identical to aspects of your own consciousness on the dream level.' And this comes from Joseph Campbell who studied mythology and psychology and surpassed Feud and Jung in the process of comparative mythology. I'm arguing on behalf of atheism fella's but I'm quite privy to middle ground. Campbell was a proponent of not getting caught up in radical right wing theism nor radical left wing atheism. When it comes to God:

"Is he or is he not? Neither is nor is not!"

The God concept is not ultimately addressed to a being of any type. That's not the mystery. In sanskrit they say "Neti Neti" - "not that, not that". Not anything that can be named or conceived of with the mind. Why? Because these myths are addressed to the mystery of existence itself. It isn't a thing, or a being, or even a mind, it's just the mystery of it all. And the mystical (mystery) experience when stripped down bare is nothing more than the experience and recognition of deep mystery concerning your own life, being, and existence with respect to the whole. That's true revelation. And I've experienced that.

Having experienced that, I understand that all those who are speaking of God as something falling short of the question of absolute ultimates is still on the road to getting there, and may never get there. What is ultimate? Is a being ultimate? No, there's the mystery as to very existence of this proposed being underlying the very existence of the proposed being itself. What about an eternal mind? A mind is a concept, a thought, and it's this side of the great mystery. It's knowable and speak able. We can imagine the universe and more as an eternal mind. "Neti, Neti" - not that, not that. Even if that were the case, there is still a lingering mystery as to the very existence of such a thing as an eternal mind which we are all an interconnected part. These are the depths mystical exploration folks, and who, pray tell, is comfortable swimming in these depths? They are beyond theism, they are beyond atheism, they are beyond everything.

I've chosen pantheism as the best description for my personal feelings, because belief is an inadequate way of describing it. I feel that we exist in an interconnected realm where nothing is really separate, despite the perception of space and distance between objects. It's all existence - the fabric and structure thereof. And "tat tvam asi" / you are that. So what if there are realms or dimensions not yet understood by science? What does that change here? If they exist, then they are necessarily one more interconnect aspect of existence itself. And the mystery underlying these proposed realms or dimensions titled "spiritual realms" fall on this side of the great mystery of existence itself. You have to transcend even that, in other words. If not, then your "spiritual realm" beliefs are blocking the way to the transcendent mystery which is simply the question of absolute ultimates. You can have the experience of deep mystery intellectually or otherwise. It's just an experience that can be provoked by any number of things.

Let's let this "dinner for schmucks" episode on mysticism and spirituality continue and see what happens...

biomystic · Fri Sep 09, 2011 9:05 am

tat tvam asi, you've chosen the Hindu-Buddhist mindset re spiritual consciousness and it's not relevant to the "Western" way of spirituality or more specifically the Abrahamic way wherein humanity and human communities receive spiritual guidance from the Creator via spiritual visionary leadership. It's assumed in this system that following the Creator's will benefits the whole as well as the individual. This is opposed to the "Eastern" way of seeking personal enlightenment via meditative techniques meant to shut down the brain's sense of self center while enhancing frontal lobe processing triggering in some meditators pleasurable bliss consciousness and oceanic feelings of the Oneness of everything. This information was found when brain scientists studied the brains of meditating Buddhist monks. The closer they reported their progress towards that state you seek as well called "enlightenment" the more they had physically shut down their brain's sense of self center located in the brain's pariatal region. In effect these monks were creating a literal hole in their heads where brain activity wasn't happening or it was greatly reduced. And from this brain manipulation comes the whole philosophy of seeking "Enlightenment" with a capital E. I'm sorry, but any philosophy stemming from brain manipulation cannot be trusted as it is in reality no different from manipulating the mind using drugs to avoid psychic pain or "suffering", this being a major goal of the Eastern meditative way of brain manipulation. No, this isn't the Western way which is truly Spirit driven. The Spirit leads through visions, signs, revelations, voices, stuff that happens OUTSIDE of your own mind's creation because other people feel the spiritual power themselves.

Have you ever had that adrenalin rush hit you, course through your whole body when you hear really good live music? Why does that happen? You know it's special because other people get the same kind of reaction and make the performer famous if he or she consistently produces this effect in people. Why not hear bad music? Why hear music at all, why not just sounds like noises? Spiritual consciousness is more akin to hearing music than fiddling with the sound system. The leading of society in the Western method of ego-reduction through service to others as instructed by God through the prophets is my way, the way I never sought as a seeker of truth or enlightenment, but the way God gave to me by opening my spiritual eyes. There is no higher consciousness than to be in direct communication with the Spirit of God and you know this is so when what God tells you becomes manifest in reality, a reality outside your own brain and one unmanipulated by artifice of brain function tampering techniques, chemical or meditative. It takes a whole brain to deal effectively with reality. Sorry to be the bearer of bad news but these are the End Times of Buddhism. Like Christianity being revealed as crypto-Egypto-Judaism, so too the Eastern reliance on meditation to achieve "enlightenment" has been revealed as physical brain manipulation not so very much different in goals from chemical brain manipulation, both seeking relief from psychic pain. This is why belief in God is superior and leads humanity because the brain is being used to fuller capacity as some like an athletic ability of leading scientists and artists reach farther into the unknown future instead of focusing on the here and now as superior to the there and then and to become.

Robert Tulip · Fri Sep 09, 2011 9:07 am


	biomystic wrote: It's always a wonder to me how atheists can just dismiss spiritual consciousness so easily when they should be wondering why they don't have it seeing how Nature evolved our human brains to process spiritual phenomena. It really is like color blind people telling those who can see colors that colors do not exist, it's a black and white and shades of grey world. Until atheists have had religious experiences, have had their brain's inherent spiritual capacity switched on, they just do not know what they're talking about. I was that way for many years but I got my spiritual processor turned on and once on, you just never can go backwards to a lesser consciousness, to a black and white and grey world when you've seen glorious colors.

Religious consciousness is a sense of human relation to the cosmos. The idea that colorful religious visions relate to an actual entity known as God is purely hallucinatory. Pleasant visions, but no more real than dreams.


	Quote: As for accepting the Abrahamic stories as myths, yes, I do that, and do it for the Gospel stories as well. But having experienced God and the Spirit of Christ for myself I do recognize spiritual reality as something very real even while the way we have come to learn about it is from old spiritual experiences turned into mythic tales much redacted for politically based religious reasons. The Spirit of Christ is very real to me as it has motivated me time and again and provided me with visions of a new spiritual awakening. Can't get that stuff by book learnin'. You can get an understanding of how these ancient spiritual experiences were transmitted through time and cultures with research but the actual spiritual experience cannot be attained or understood without having gone through it. And that experience I can almost guarantee is something that will change the mind of the most adamant atheist.

I agree with you that spiritual reality is real. However, the language you have used to describe spiritual reality is not accurate. Saint Paul similarly had visions of the Spirit of Christ and used language which people subsequently misinterpreted into the claim that Jesus was a real person, when there is no such claim in Paul. The universe consists of matter in motion. This process produces natural spiritual vision in humanity. It does not mean that this vision has an objective referent.

biomystic · Fri Sep 09, 2011 9:32 am

youkrst wrote:


	Quote: But having experienced God

i have no doubt you experienced something, and you refer to this something as God

but isn't that the trouble with words, especially the G word, it is simply a reference, but one mans god is another mans devil so it needs plenty of explaining to pin it down as exactly what the reference is to.

ok you've experienced something you call god

is it more of a person type god or the transcendant mystery behind existence that cannot be quantified type of god.

is it the "i see you wanking" kind of god or the "i and the father are one" kinda thing

is it both and yet neither one nor t'other (see you reach a point where words need explaining)

you see the sort of trouble words entail, it takes a lot of hard work on the part of speaker and listener to gain clarity and focus and an accurate transference of concept.

for example if a resplendant vision appears to a person in the west he might say "i've seen jesus" but in the east he might say "i've seen krishna" or "i saw buddha"

then someone else might reply "all three the same, three references to same thing" and a fistfight might break out (metaphorically)

the trouble maker is the brain, it thinks it is running the show but it is just a secondary organ of consciousness. it is trying to interpret what is very tricky to interpret.

i have my interpretation but the experience i am trying to interpret IS NOT my interpretation

it's the other way around (lol)

(BTW: does this deity of yours endorse nickelback? that would be a black mark against him in my book, indeed grounds for instant dismissal)

PS: see, all this just from "but having experienced god". Only 4 words from one post.

i'm a lot like you in that i have had profound spontaneous mystical visions but interpreting them more adequately took a hell of a lot of hard yards, the experience hasn't changed but the interpretation is constantly being refined.

Didn't know what nickelback was until I Googled it and found true love. Well, so much for Gnosis..

You all may be wondering by now why another one of these god-awful Internet prophet loonies would dare to be posting on this atheist prone book discussion forum. I can't answer that one as I couldn't possibly know being the real deal and all, here to enlighten and entertain with spiritual wizzdom the likes of which will bend mental spoonerisms, jump tall billboard ads saying Jesus loves each you because now, Goodness works just as well and you don't need a book to tell you so. KRST, how do I know? Because Father Jesus told me so.. :roll:

Sorry, I don't watch tv. Just stand here 24/7 singing praises to the Lord while beating up poor hapless atheists..

biomystic · Fri Sep 09, 2011 9:57 am

Robert Tulip wrote:


	biomystic wrote: It's always a wonder to me how atheists can just dismiss spiritual consciousness so easily when they should be wondering why they don't have it seeing how Nature evolved our human brains to process spiritual phenomena. It really is like color blind people telling those who can see colors that colors do not exist, it's a black and white and shades of grey world. Until atheists have had religious experiences, have had their brain's inherent spiritual capacity switched on, they just do not know what they're talking about. I was that way for many years but I got my spiritual processor turned on and once on, you just never can go backwards to a lesser consciousness, to a black and white and grey world when you've seen glorious colors.

Religious consciousness is a sense of human relation to the cosmos. The idea that colorful religious visions relate to an actual entity known as God is purely hallucinatory. Pleasant visions, but no more real than dreams.


	Quote: As for accepting the Abrahamic stories as myths, yes, I do that, and do it for the Gospel stories as well. But having experienced God and the Spirit of Christ for myself I do recognize spiritual reality as something very real even while the way we have come to learn about it is from old spiritual experiences turned into mythic tales much redacted for politically based religious reasons. The Spirit of Christ is very real to me as it has motivated me time and again and provided me with visions of a new spiritual awakening. Can't get that stuff by book learnin'. You can get an understanding of how these ancient spiritual experiences were transmitted through time and cultures with research but the actual spiritual experience cannot be attained or understood without having gone through it. And that experience I can almost guarantee is something that will change the mind of the most adamant atheist.

I agree with you that spiritual reality is real. However, the language you have used to describe spiritual reality is not accurate. Saint Paul similarly had visions of the Spirit of Christ and used language which people subsequently misinterpreted into the claim that Jesus was a real person, when there is no such claim in Paul. The universe consists of matter in motion. This process produces natural spiritual vision in humanity. It does not mean that this vision has an objective referent.

Well, that's why I've been sent. To reestablish spiritual authority with authenticated spiritual work. I'm a real person, got a driver's license, social security card, pay rent, and leave a track record on the Internet. But it true, it would all be just my own personal gnosis, my own revelations produced by my own mind, unless these visions and revelations somehow go beyond my mind and spread to other people inspiring them to become participants in a kind of spiritual wave that spreads out ever wider as more and more become involved, i.e. a mass movement that reaches historic proportions. This is how you tell spiritual energy is happening because it unites peoples emotional life and overcomes traditional social barriers to peace, love and harmony. At least that's the leading edge of spiritual direction in our times which are at the beginning of the new age. Before Abrahamic spiritual energy broke up tribalism to form nations and advance social protections of individuals. But now Abrahamic religious warfare inherent in each Abrahamic religion, Pauline Christianity being one, has proven itself a menace to world peace and must go the way of the dinosaurs, i.e. lose the tyrant lizards and stick with the soaring birds. So God sends in a new template for change, one fit for the new millennium. And one of things necessary is establishment of authentic proof of divine intervention in our times, i.e, something that shows an historic movement of people driven by the same spiritual idea. This is how the Spirit must work as It has no hands but ours to do the actual work necessary to carry out the spiritually received instructions it gives to humanity via the prophesy bearers.

tat tvam asi · Fri Sep 09, 2011 11:39 am


	Quote: tat tvam asi, you've chosen the Hindu-Buddhist mindset re spiritual consciousness and it's not relevant to the "Western" way of spirituality or more specifically the Abrahamic way wherein humanity and human communities receive spiritual guidance from the Creator via spiritual visionary leadership. It's assumed in this system that following the Creator's will benefits the whole as well as the individual. This is opposed to the "Eastern" way of seeking personal enlightenment via meditative techniques meant to shut down the brain's sense of self center while enhancing frontal lobe processing triggering in some meditators pleasurable bliss consciousness and oceanic feelings of the Oneness of everything.

Yes, and Judaism is in several ways a degraded version of Hinduism, which is where the Brahma - Saraswati / Abram - Sarai parallel leads. And the Gnostic Christian era ushers in Greco-Egypto Hellenizing Jewish efforts to bring back the God as all symbolism which had been greatly degraded in Judaism. It was forbidden to identify oneself with the God, a blasphemy. And the Jewish mystics sought to reverse that through this jumping from hoop to hoop process. Jesus was considered a man, but God, and Christians as the body of Christ once the squabbling settled. There's a line drawn from you the individual back to the God concept and this is obviously a way of trying to fix what had become a degraded form of enlightened thinking through the folly Judaism. That's just it, western spirituality and mysticism is a degraded from of the former. The Alexandrian's were privy to this problem and sought to reverse it.


	Quote: But now Abrahamic religious warfare inherent in each Abrahamic religion, Pauline Christianity being one, has proven itself a menace to world peace and must go the way of the dinosaurs, i.e. lose the tyrant lizards and stick with the soaring birds. So God sends in a new template for change, one fit for the new millennium. And one of things necessary is establishment of authentic proof of divine intervention in our times, i.e, something that shows an historic movement of people driven by the same spiritual idea. This is how the Spirit must work as It has no hands but ours to do the actual work necessary to carry out the spiritually received instructions it gives to humanity via the prophesy bearers.

And so you enter the scene with all of the blatant expectations fundamentals have for a world "anti-christ". lol

Good luck with that oh ye of little sense. That's the very crack pot type of theology that most Christians have been trained to stone wall as a "sign of the end times." The world will cry out for peace, then all out war will ensue as it goes. You enter the scene as a fulfillment of the self fulfilling prophecy trend...

Interbane · Fri Sep 09, 2011 2:44 pm


	Quote: This is how you tell spiritual energy is happening because it unites peoples emotional life and overcomes traditional social barriers to peace, love and harmony.

That's superfluous. It's like saying that flea medicine doesn't work on dogs unless the dogs love their owners, because the energy of love is what activates the flea medicine. It's utterly unnecessary for an understanding of how our world works. It's your own beliefs overlaid on reality. Do you think some divine energy is 'activated' when certain social conditions are met, or when the constituent people have certain emotions, or are inspired in a certain way?

biomystic · Fri Sep 09, 2011 3:25 pm

Interbane wrote:


	Quote: This is how you tell spiritual energy is happening because it unites peoples emotional life and overcomes traditional social barriers to peace, love and harmony.

That's superfluous. It's like saying that flea medicine doesn't work on dogs unless the dogs love their owners, because the energy of love is what activates the flea medicine. It's utterly unnecessary for an understanding of how our world works. It's your own beliefs overlaid on reality. Do you think some divine energy is 'activated' when certain social conditions are met, or when the constituent people have certain emotions, or are inspired in a certain way?

No, the other way around. And it isn't my own belief overlaid on reality when reality confirms my belief that preceded actual events. And this is why prophesy bearers consider themselves working for God. What they bring to their communities begins a new social consciousness. But the social consciousness never arises first without the seed activator, himself inspired by divine guidance.

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