You are browsing the forum as a guest. Please log in or register to access additional features.
Online reading group and book discussion forum
  FORUMS ABOUT BOOKS VIDEOS TRANSCRIPTS LINKS BLOGS DONATE CONTACT  

     Log in   Register 


BookTalk.org News
• Only 3 members are currently signed up to receive email digests. Click on the digests link on the right at the top of every page to learn more. This is a great feature for keeping updated on forum activity.
• Regular casual chats are back on the menu! Check out the calendar for the schedule.

Links & Resources

Community Rules & Tips
For Authors & Publishers
Link to our old forum
Our Amazon.com Statistics
Book Suggestions
Rationally Speaking
Donations to BookTalk.org
FACTS Book Selections
BookTalk Forum Statistics
Games 170 FREE Games


Chat Room

Enter the BookTalk.org Chat Room

Enter our Chat Room

Featured Videos

Dan Barker
author of "Godless"
talks about his deconversion


Dan Barker's Deconversion

Andrew Bacevich
"The Limits of Power"

Andrew Bacevich on The Limits of Power

More Videos

Author Interviews


Featured Member Blogs

Ophelia's Blog
Lawrence's Blog
Penelope's Blog
Frank 013's Blog

- View all member Blogs
- See the latest Blog posts


Amazon Honor System
Amazon Honor System Click Here to Pay Learn More

Donate to BookTalk.org

Please support BookTalk.org by making a small donation today!

Who supports us?


Related Links

Show us where you live!
BookTalk.org Member Map

Display Pagerank


Part II (Chapters 11 through 17)


 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    BookTalk.org Forum Index -> Archived Book Discussions 2006-2007 -> The Woman in the Dunes - by Abe Kobo
Author Message
MadArchitect



Usergroups: None


Joined: 14 Nov 2004


Posts: 2609

Thanks
Given: 0
Received: 0 in 0 Posts

Gender: Male
Location: decentralized
us.gif



PostPosted: Thu Nov 02, 2006 1:47 am    Post subject: Part II (Chapters 11 through 17) Reply with quote
Use this thread to discuss the first third of Part II, beginning with chapter 11 and ending with chapter 17.

Edited by: MadArchitect at: 11/2/06 1:49 am
Back to top
  Facebook it
MadArchitect



Usergroups: None


Joined: 14 Nov 2004


Posts: 2609

Thanks
Given: 0
Received: 0 in 0 Posts

Gender: Male
Location: decentralized
us.gif



PostPosted: Wed Nov 29, 2006 12:19 am    Post subject: Re: Part II (Chapters 11 through 17) Reply with quote
Reading chapter 12 today, I had another thought about the themes running through the novel, this one from a very different angle than the one we've been discussing in the earlier threads. Rose talked about ways of viewing the novel from a somewhat feminist perspective (although I don't think you necessarily have to be feminist to recognize the problematic nature of the woman's situation). What occurred to me today was that the novel could also be read as symbolic of the kind of malaise and angst and otherwise independent man can feel in a very domestic marriage. Maybe that's an element in the story that I should have seen all along, but it really hit home today in reading the solicitous way the woman deals with the man's strategies for escaping.

The two characters almost seem emblematic of a dichotomy between a particular idealization of men and a particular idealization of women, one emphasized, perhaps, by their conflicting attitudes towards sand. The man wants to preserve a certain rootlessness; he wants to be a wanderer and an inventor. The woman, by contrast, is very domestic; she's a trapper, and (as opposed to the man's tendency towards invention) a tidier.

I think that's one interesting way to look at the story because it's a scenario that, nominally at least, seems to be played out a great deal in modern life. You have all these men who value their perceived independence and waywardness, who fall in love and get married, only to feel stifled and to long for some form of escape. But marriage is a socially ordained institution, and once the man has entered into the domestic situation, society aligns itself against the breakdown of that unit. I don't know how common that scenario is in real life, but it does seem to me that we act it out on a regular enough basis so that it's a familiar story, even if quasi-mythical for all that.

Are those ideas compatible with the ideas Rosemary and I were talking about in relation to earlier chapters? Maybe; and if they're not, then we need not necessarily latch onto one set of ideas to the exclusion of another. Anyway, there they are, for your consideration.

Back to top
  Facebook it
irishrosem irishrosem has been starred
Doctorate



Usergroups: None


Joined: 19 Oct 2006


Posts: 536

Thanks
Given: 0
Received: 0 in 0 Posts

Gender: Female

us.gif



PostPosted: Sat Dec 02, 2006 12:29 am    Post subject: Re: Part II (Chapters 11 through 17) Reply with quote
Quote:
The man wants to preserve a certain rootlessness; he wants to be a wanderer and an inventor. The woman, by contrast, is very domestic; she's a trapper, and (as opposed to the man's tendency towards invention) a tidier.

Mad, this is incredibly interesting in light of how the book ends. I hadn't considered the inventor aspect of the relationship, and how invention is related to innovation. (I probably missed it because it's such a boy theme...::03 ) I won't give away spoilers, just let me know when you get there. I think you'll know what struck me.

Back to top
  Facebook it
MadArchitect



Usergroups: None


Joined: 14 Nov 2004


Posts: 2609

Thanks
Given: 0
Received: 0 in 0 Posts

Gender: Male
Location: decentralized
us.gif



PostPosted: Sun Dec 03, 2006 10:18 pm    Post subject: Re: Part II (Chapters 11 through 17) Reply with quote
The bit about inventions occurred to me in part because it's a theme in the only other Abe book that I've read, "Kangaroo Notebook". The main character works for a company that (if memory serves) produces stationary. At the start of the novel, the protagonist has just invented the title object, a notebook with a cover pocket designed to carry a smaller notebook. And then, seemingly unrelated, he start growing radish sprouts in the place of leg hair. Which leads to a subterrainian journey. Complete with vampire nurses. Needless to say, it's a much more bizarre novel than "Woman in the Dunes" but it struck me that invention is a theme that runs through both -- and a very apt theme for an author whose work is so novel and inventive.

I hit another couple of chapters today, and this line in chapter stood out to me: "But everyday life was exactly like the headlines. And so everybody, knowing the meaningless of existence, sets the center of his compass at his own home."

The narrator had just scanned the newspaper for some mention of his own disappearance, and found a hodgepodge of world events that, ultimately, had little significance for him personally. I found myself wondering what newspapers really communicate to people -- at least on the 99% of occasions like this one, in which nothing reported really has any direct effect on your circumstances at the time.

And maybe it also gives us some clue as to the narrator's view of domestic life -- I take the quote to be a shift to the narrator's point of view, and not Abe's own comment on domestic life. "LOVE YOUR HOME", then, serves as a kind of paliative for the realization that all of the news in the world doesn't add up to a meaningful life. But I get the sense that he inwardly sneers at the idea that a rich home life is really meaningful. Rather, it's a kind of false compensation, a distraction that keeps you from dwelling too much on the ultimately unimportance of everything.

One other thing just occurred to me. All of this is couched in the continuing description of sand sifting into everything. So maybe the sand is, for the narrator at least, indicative of the way this dissatisfaction slips into his home life, and seems to dirty up everything.

Back to top
  Facebook it
Display replies from:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    BookTalk.org Forum Index -> Archived Book Discussions 2006-2007 -> The Woman in the Dunes - by Abe Kobo  
Page 1 of 1


 
Recent Topics
» THE EZEKIEL CODE - A Metaphysical/Mystery/Adventure/Thriller
by Robert Tulip on Tue Nov 18, 2008 11:55 pm

» Albino potion ingredient?
by Chris OConnor on Tue Nov 18, 2008 11:39 pm

» 2012, The End of the World?
by Interbane on Tue Nov 18, 2008 11:36 pm

» Suggest NON-FICTION books for our next official discussion
by Chris OConnor on Tue Nov 18, 2008 11:15 pm

» WANTED: Suggestions for our Jan. & Feb. FICTION book
by Chris OConnor on Tue Nov 18, 2008 10:28 pm

» Official Poll - Dec. 2008 & Jan. 2009 Fiction Book
by Chris OConnor on Tue Nov 18, 2008 10:21 pm

» Multipligeous
by Interbane on Tue Nov 18, 2008 9:54 pm

» Suggestions for our next FICTION book discussion
by Chris OConnor on Tue Nov 18, 2008 9:50 pm

» Poem of the moment
by DWill on Tue Nov 18, 2008 8:31 pm

» What do you do for a living?
by Frank 013 on Tue Nov 18, 2008 8:21 pm




BookTalk.org Suggests


Stupid Reasons People Die: An Ingenious Plot for Defusing Deadly Diseases by John Corso, M.D.

Wife In The North by Judith O'Reilly

Coyote's Guide to Connecting with Nature: For Kids of All Ages and Their Mentors by Young, Haas, McGown

The Myth of the Oil Crisis: Overcoming The Challenges of Depletion, Geopolitics, And Global Warming by Robin M . Mills

With Pythons & Head-Hunters in Borneo: The Quest for Mount Tiban by Brian Row McNamee

In a Time of War: The Proud and Perilous Journey of West Point' Class of 2002 by Bill Murphy Jr.


Additional Book Suggestions


Related Links

Poll
How often do you visit the library?

I visit the library several times each week [2]
Oh, probably once per week [3]
Maybe a few times per month [0]
Once every month on average [0]
I visit the library every few months [0]
Only a few times per year [3]
Maybe 1 visit to the library per year [1]

You must login to vote


BookTalk.org is a book discussion group, also known as a reading group or book club. We read and talk about non-fiction books, as a group. Live author chats where book group members can interact with and interview authors are common. We often give away free books to our members in book giveaway contests. Our booktalks are open to everybody who enjoys booktalk.  Booktalk is a free online reading group that features quality book reviews, resources for readers and book lovers. Discussing books is our passion. Non-fiction chat, book forum, literature forum, or reading forum. Register a free book club account today. Suggest nonfiction books. Authors and publishers are welcome to plug their books or ask for an author chat or interview.

MAIN NAVIGATION

HOMEABOUTBOOKSTRANSCRIPTSOLD FORUMSLINKSBLOGSFAQDONATECONTACT

BOOKS WE HAVE DISCUSSED
Godless: How an Evangelical Preacher Became One of America's Leading Atheists by Dan BarkerThe Things They Carried by Tim O'BrienThe Limits of Power: The End of American ExceptionalismLolitaOrlando by Virginia Woolf On Being Certain by Robert A. Burton50 reasons people give for believing in a god by Guy P. HarrisonWalden: Or, Life in the Woods by Henry David ThoreauExile and the Kingdom by Albert CamusOur Inner Ape: A Leading Primatologist Explains Why We Are Who We Are by Frans de WaalYour Inner Fish: A Journey into the 3.5-Billion-Year-History of the Human Body by Neil ShubinNo Country for Old Men by Cormac McCarthyThe Age of American Unreason by Susan JacobyTen Theories of Human Nature by Leslie Stevenson & David HabermanHeart of Darkness by Joseph ConradThe Stuff of Thought: Language as a Window Into Human Nature by Stephen PinkerA Thousand Splendid Suns by Khaled HosseiniThe Lucifer Effect: Understanding How Good People Turn Evil by Philip ZimbardoResponsibility and Judgment by Hannah ArendtInterventions by Noam ChomskyGodless in America by George A. RickerReligious Expression and the American Constitution by Franklyn S. HaimanDeep Economy: The Wealth of Communities and the Durable Future by Phil McKibbenThe God Delusion by Richard DawkinsThe Third Chimpanzee: The Evolution and Future of the Human Animal by Jared DiamondThe Woman in the Dunes by Abe KoboEvolution vs. Creationism: An Introduction by Eugenie C. ScottThe Omnivore's Dilemma: A Natural History of Four Meals by Michael PollanI, Claudius : From the Autobiography of Tiberius Claudius, Born 10 B.C., Murdered and Deified A.D. 54 by Robert GravesBreaking The Spell: Religion as a Natural Phenomenon by Daniel C. DennettA Peace to End All Peace: The Fall of the Ottoman Empire and the Creation of the Modern Middle East Peace by David FromkinThe Time Traveler's Wife by Audrey NiffeneggerThe End of Faith: Religion, Terror, and the Future of Reason by Sam HarrisEnder's Game by Orson Scott CardThe Curious Incident of the Dog in the Night-Time by Mark HaddonValue and Virtue in a Godless Universe by Erik J. WielenbergThe March by E. L DoctorowThe Ethical Brain by Michael GazzanigaFreethinkers: A History of American Secularism by Susan JacobyCollapse: How Societies Choose to Fail or Succeed by Jared DiamondThe Battle for God by Karen ArmstrongThe Future of Life by Edward O. WilsonWhat is Good? The Search for the Best Way to Live by A. C. GraylingCivilization and Its Enemies: The Next Stage of History by Lee HarrisPale Blue Dot: A Vision of the Human Future in Space by Carl SaganHow We Believe: Science, Skepticism, and the Search for God by Michael ShermerLooking for Spinoza: Joy, Sorrow, and the Feeling Brain by Antonio DamasioLies and the Lying Liars Who Tell Them: A Fair and Balanced Look at the Right by Al FrankenThe Red Queen: Sex and the Evolution of Human Nature by Matt RidleyThe Blank Slate: The Modern Denial of Human Nature by Stephen PinkerUnweaving the Rainbow: Science, Delusion and the Appetite for Wonder by Richard DawkinsAtheism: A Reader edited by S.T. JoshiGlobal Brain: The Evolution of Mass Mind From the Big Bang To the 21st Century by Howard BloomThe Lucifer Principle: A Scientific Expedition into the Forces of Nature by Howard BloomGuns, Germs and Steel: The Fates of Human Societies by Jared DiamondThe Demon-Haunted World: Science as a Candle in the Dark by Carl SaganBury My Heart at Wounded Knee: An Indian History of the American West by Dee BrownFuture Shock by Alvin Toffler

OTHER PAGES
Baloney Detection KitBanned Book ListOur Amazon.com SalesMassimo Pigliucci Rationally SpeakingOnline Reading GroupTop 10 Atheism BooksFACTS Book Selections

Copyright © BookTalk.org 2002-2008. All rights reserved.
Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2002 phpBB Group
Website developed by MidnightCoder.ca