Online reading group and book discussion forum
  HOME FORUMS BOOKS LINKS DONATE ADVERTISE CONTACT  
View unanswered posts | View active topics It is currently Fri Aug 22, 2014 10:34 pm




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 48 posts ] • Topic evaluate: Evaluations: 0, 0.00 on the average.Evaluations: 0, 0.00 on the average.Evaluations: 0, 0.00 on the average.Evaluations: 0, 0.00 on the average.Evaluations: 0, 0.00 on the average.  Go to page 1, 2, 3, 4  Next
Paradise Lost: Bk II 
Author Message
User avatar
Years of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membership
Comandante Literario Supreme w/ Cheese

BookTalk.org Moderator
Silver Contributor

Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 2857
Location: Round Hill, VA
Thanks: 421
Thanked: 331 times in 252 posts
Gender: Female
Country: United States (us)

Post Paradise Lost: Bk II
Book II Discussion

Please use this thread to discuss Book II of Paradise Lost



Last edited by Saffron on Fri Jan 23, 2009 9:21 am, edited 1 time in total.



Wed Jan 21, 2009 11:53 pm
Profile Email
User avatar
Years of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membership
Comandante Literario Supreme w/ Cheese

BookTalk.org Moderator
Silver Contributor

Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 2857
Location: Round Hill, VA
Thanks: 421
Thanked: 331 times in 252 posts
Gender: Female
Country: United States (us)

Post 
After Book 1 I wasn't so sure what I'd gotten myself into with Paradise Lost. I must admit I struggled a bit with the language and the content. I think with Book II I am getting the hang of it. I am beginning to have the sense of sitting around listening to a fantastical story being told aloud.


_________________
"may my mind stroll about hungry and fearless and thirsty and supple"
- e.e. cummings


Thu Jan 22, 2009 7:28 am
Profile Email
User avatar
Years of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membership
pets endangered by possible book avalanche

Gold Contributor 2

Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 4944
Location: Berryville, Virginia
Thanks: 1081
Thanked: 1040 times in 813 posts
Gender: Male
Country: United States (us)

Post 
Right, PL is a lot to get into, but I think your approach is sound. There are some questions we might be thinking about as we read through this work. One I have already tried to indicate, and that is 1) the degreee to which PL works as an epic or a drama/epic, that is on the primary level of the reader's response, divorced as much as possible from the poem's theology.

Others would be: 2) How are we to understand the "mind" of Milton and his educated contemporaries with regard to the Christian religion? There might be a danger of oversimplifying their thinking based on the apparent truth that they saw biblical commentary as also to a degree historical commentary. However, to see them through a present-day lens of fundamentalist Christianity would be a big mistake. Today, as far as I can see, there is virtually no theology in fundamentalism, whereas for Milton--despite his protestantism--theology was still a very live issue, which means that the Bible did not answer all theological questions. I imagine that theology for Milton, and even for the less educated, was on a par with politics for us today. Milton was not a theologian, but he still felt called upon to weigh in with his "On Christian Doctrine." I guess I'm saying we have to be careful about seeing even Milton as a strict biblical literalist, and about translating all features of his poem into his personal beliefs.
3) Related to #2, would we agree with Sir Walter Raleigh's criticism that PL is just a monument to dead ideas? If Milton's Christianity is not our Christianity, or even if we are not Christians, what is there for us in the artistic/moral vision of PL? Anything?


_________________
Man is an animal suspended in webs of significance that he himself has spun.

Clifford Geertz


Thu Jan 22, 2009 8:23 am
Profile Email


Post Paradise Lost
I, too, have attempted to read this work several times over the years, and put it back on the shelf...but the Illiad was not a favorite for me.

Dwill suggessts:
"There are some questions we might be thinking about as we read through this work. One I have already tried to indicate, and that is 1) the degreee to which PL works as an epic or a drama/epic, that is on the primary level of the reader's response, divorced as much as possible from the poem's theology."

Finally having made it into Bk ll and found that I am enjoying it, I would say yes...but again...is it really possible to searate theology and politics from the piece when the two were so bound together in those times? Even now, it seems to me there remains an intense struggle to separate the two in reasoning as well as governing.


Grindle



Thu Jan 22, 2009 8:55 am
User avatar
Years of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membership
pets endangered by possible book avalanche

Gold Contributor 2

Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 4944
Location: Berryville, Virginia
Thanks: 1081
Thanked: 1040 times in 813 posts
Gender: Male
Country: United States (us)

Post Re: Paradise Lost
Grindle wrote:
I, too, have attempted to read this work several times over the years, and put it back on the shelf...but the Illiad was not a favorite for me.

So perhaps for you PL will have an inside track, since it lacks so much of the martial stuff and glorifying of violence.
Quote:
Finally having made it into Bk ll and found that I am enjoying it, I would say yes...but again...is it really possible to searate theology and politics from the piece when the two were so bound together in those times? Even now, it seems to me there remains an intense struggle to separate the two in reasoning as well as governing.

The answer to your question is surely "no," but what I was thinking of is the possible validity of of at least some sentiment and drama in the poem, even if we reject the theology (as I do). It might even go beyond sentiment and drama to include respect for the statement of our human predicament-- in a different vernacular than we would use, but perhaps valid in translation for us. But that is for people to determine. I won't be sure where I stand myself until I've reread this poem. I hope that undertaking this work as a group will help those who have attempted it before get to the end this time. (Maybe we should read Moby Dick sometime?)


_________________
Man is an animal suspended in webs of significance that he himself has spun.

Clifford Geertz


Thu Jan 22, 2009 11:53 am
Profile Email
User avatar
Years of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membership
Comandante Literario Supreme w/ Cheese

BookTalk.org Moderator
Silver Contributor

Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 2857
Location: Round Hill, VA
Thanks: 421
Thanked: 331 times in 252 posts
Gender: Female
Country: United States (us)

Post Re: Paradise Lost
DWill wrote:
I hope that undertaking this work as a group will help those who have attempted it before get to the end this time. (Maybe we should read Moby Dick sometime?)


:laugh: You hit the nail squarely this time! I have tried to read Moby Dick; I even liked it, but couldn't get to the end -- maybe the support of a group would see me through to the end. Maybe that should be the next fiction!


_________________
"may my mind stroll about hungry and fearless and thirsty and supple"
- e.e. cummings


Thu Jan 22, 2009 12:04 pm
Profile Email
User avatar
Years of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membership
pets endangered by possible book avalanche

Gold Contributor 2

Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 4944
Location: Berryville, Virginia
Thanks: 1081
Thanked: 1040 times in 813 posts
Gender: Male
Country: United States (us)

Post 
The book club as support group for getting through imposing classics--yes, that is a good statement of a purpose. Then you can't give up without feeling like a wimp!


_________________
Man is an animal suspended in webs of significance that he himself has spun.

Clifford Geertz


Thu Jan 22, 2009 12:14 pm
Profile Email
Years of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membership
Eligible to vote in book polls!


Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 29
Thanks: 0
Thanked: 3 times in 3 posts
Gender: Male
Country: United States (us)

Post 
WOW. Everything that I found lacking in Book I I was happy to find here in Book II. I found the entire thing extremely enjoyable. It ranged from exciting to suspensful and was just excellent. It didn't seem to ramble as much as Book I did either. At least to me it seemed that Milton followed a clear path through to the end so that this book read in a rather straight forward manner.
Milton's entire concept still seems rather questionable however. There still exists this paradox that god is allowing all of this to happen while at the same time can stop it whenver he chooses. It's been suggested that god knows exactly where all of this is going to end so perhaps that justifies his allowing it to an extent...Perhaps his allowing Satan and Sin to enter the world are because of what happens in subsequent books (Adam and Eve), so I will have to wait for that to unfold to answer itself. (I am attempting to read this as if I am being introduced to all of this material for the first time. I have never read PL before but so much of this has been coopted into the fiction vernacular since Milton's time that I feel like I know most of the subplots already).



Thu Jan 22, 2009 2:31 pm
Profile
User avatar
Years of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membership
pets endangered by possible book avalanche

Gold Contributor 2

Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 4944
Location: Berryville, Virginia
Thanks: 1081
Thanked: 1040 times in 813 posts
Gender: Male
Country: United States (us)

Post 
Cool. I've been reading some background stuff and haven't caught up to you on my re-read. Seems what you're wondering about is this maddening theology that Milton didn't invent; it seems so tortured, doesn't it? God is like the house in gambling, and the house always wins. With omniscience, God always gets to be smarty pants.

I looked in my Milton book at "On Christian doctrine." I was surprised to see my underlinings there, don't recall having read it, but at least some of it I did. From my brief look, it's all there, how Milton works out, only from the Bible, the character of God and his powers. But I'm sure his ideas on this were not unique.


_________________
Man is an animal suspended in webs of significance that he himself has spun.

Clifford Geertz


Thu Jan 22, 2009 3:01 pm
Profile Email
Years of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membership
Eligible to vote in book polls!


Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 29
Thanks: 0
Thanked: 3 times in 3 posts
Gender: Male
Country: United States (us)

Post 
[quote="DWill"]Seems what you're wondering about is this maddening theology that Milton didn't invent; it seems so tortured, doesn't it?
quote]

Haha- Yeah, pretty much the story of my life...I think thats the same for all recovering christians like my self.



Fri Jan 23, 2009 9:46 am
Profile
Years of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membership
Eligible to vote in book polls!


Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 29
Thanks: 0
Thanked: 3 times in 3 posts
Gender: Male
Country: United States (us)

Post 
So, these are a few of the things that I found particularly interesting (besides the altogether awesome description of hell throughout Book II)
(quotes are from dartmouth.edu translation)

1) "Turning our Tortures into horrid Arms
Against the Torturer; when to meet the noise
Of his Almighty Engin he shall hear [ 65 ]
Infernal Thunder, and for Lightning see
Black fire and horror shot with equal rage
Among his Angels; and his Throne it self
Mixt with Tartarean Sulphur, and strange fire,
His own invented Torments."
- These are the words of Moloch, who is laying his case for full on open war with heaven. I found it intriguing that as he lists all of the terrible weapons they have at their disposal he also conceeds that all of those weapons have been invented by god.
Unless I'm mistaken these "tortures and torments" would be unpleasant things. I'm confused by the fact that God is the creator of bad things as well as good. Isn't the point of later in this book claiming that Sin sprang from the head of Satan then was raped by him and he in turn fathered death to illustrate the fact that Satan is the creator of all that is bad?
Again, this is me struggling with the convoluted theology, not precisely the text itself.

2) Belial's speech adds an interesting tidbit to the conversation that was held in the thread for Book I - about whether angels can in fact be killed.
"Thus repuls'd, our final hope
Is flat despair; we must exasperate
Th' Almighty Victor to spend all his rage,
And that must end us, that must be our cure, [ 145 ]
To be no more
; sad cure; for who would loose,
Though full of pain, this intellectual being,
Those thoughts that wander through Eternity,
To perish rather, swallowd up and lost
In the wide womb of uncreated night, [ 150 ]
Devoid of sense and motion? and who knows,
Let this be good, whether our angry Foe
Can give it, or will ever?"

- This is interesting because it seems that even the angels in hell (demons?) aren't sure whether or not they can be killed. Belial says that's what they should hope for yet he's not sure if God can or will do it-(see bold)



Fri Jan 23, 2009 10:17 am
Profile
User avatar
Years of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membership
pets endangered by possible book avalanche

Gold Contributor 2

Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 4944
Location: Berryville, Virginia
Thanks: 1081
Thanked: 1040 times in 813 posts
Gender: Male
Country: United States (us)

Post 
I found the language in Bk. II to be more difficult. It's not the vocabulary or Milton's spelling, but the syntax, which appears to be more like badly translated Latin at times. This is 60 years after Shakespeare, yet it's less like English to me.

About the demon's council, I picked up that none of the speakers but Satan believe that they have any chance to strike at God's throne or to get the best of God in any other way. Even Moloch favors open war only because that is the only option to being miserable in Hell, and some measure of revenge would feel good. But all think that God can't be beat, except Satan. The traditional way to look at that would be to say that Satan has enormous pride, which is a form a self-deception. He deceives himself. Another way to look at it, though, is that he won't accept what is only reputed; he has to find out for himself. But he's smart enough to know that so soon after being beaten, war isn't the best path.

I thought the "interlude" after the council was kind of amusing, where in imitation of the classical epics Milton has the demons holding contests, exploring Hell, and having seminars and such.

The meeting with Sin and Death and the story told about Satan's fatherhood of them seemed like burlesque allegory to me. It isn't in keeping with the impression we have of Satan so far, but that is what Milton intends, to take some of the glory away from Satan. It was also pretty bold of Milton to make Heaven the place of the origin of Sin. I wasn't surprised here that Milton implies that only through God's sufferance does Satan's ploy to get the gates open work.

Sin and Death amain
Following his track, such was the will of Heav'n, [ 1025 ]


That was a good moral that Milton draws from the admirable unity that the demons show (from the Dartmouth online edition):

O shame to men! Devil with Devil damn'd
Firm concord holds, men onely disagree
Of Creatures rational, though under hope
Of heavenly Grace; and God proclaiming peace,
Yet live in hatred, enmity, and strife [ 500 ]
Among themselves, and levie cruel warres,
Wasting the Earth, each other to destroy:
As if (which might induce us to accord)
Man had not hellish foes anow besides,
That day and night for his destruction waite.

And so, off Satan goes to see what trouble he can stir up in the new territory of earth. Here's a question to end with: The cosmology that Milton uses is Ptolemaic and from Greek myth. Yet Copernicus published his On Celestial Motions in 1543, more than 120 years before Milton began PL. Why didn't Milton get with the program? He wasn't some kind of throwback and was well aware of even recent developments in science.


_________________
Man is an animal suspended in webs of significance that he himself has spun.

Clifford Geertz


Sat Jan 24, 2009 12:12 am
Profile Email
User avatar
Years of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membership
Book Slut

Gold Contributor

Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 4115
Location: Canberra
Thanks: 1126
Thanked: 1171 times in 880 posts
Gender: Male
Country: Australia (au)

Post 
The philosophical problem of Paradise Lost is set out in the following lines from Book 2, where Milton says that reasoning about providence, foreknowledge, freedom and fate is difficult. My view here is that freedom can be understood on the model of resistance to disease: sin is like a virus on the planet, and humanity is strengthened by going through the illness, while gaia prepares antibodies. Freedom that lacks the fortitude to resist destruction is not real. It is like Einstein's view of time, that the future is just as real as the past, but life is so complex that this theory cannot diminish freedom. In other words, Jesus Christ is the vaccine innoculating planet earth against the cancer of sin.
Quote:
Others apart sat on a Hill retir'd, In thoughts more elevate, and reason'd high Of Providence, Foreknowledge, Will and Fate, Fixt Fate, free will, foreknowledg absolute, [ 560 ] And found no end, in wandring mazes lost. Of good and evil much they argu'd then, Of happiness and final misery, Passion and Apathie, and glory and shame, Vain wisdom all, and false Philosophie: [ 565 ] Yet with a pleasing sorcerie could charm Pain for a while or anguish, and excite Fallacious hope, or arm th' obdured brest With stubborn patience as with triple steel.



Sat Jan 24, 2009 5:17 am
Profile Email WWW
User avatar
Years of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membership
Likes the book better than the movie


Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 825
Location: Wyse Fork, NC
Thanks: 0
Thanked: 0 time in 0 post
Gender: None specified

Post 
DWill wrote:
The cosmology that Milton uses is Ptolemaic and from Greek myth. Yet Copernicus published his On Celestial Motions in 1543, more than 120 years before Milton began PL. Why didn't Milton get with the program? He wasn't some kind of throwback and was well aware of even recent developments in science.


Probably because Milton was aware of the dehumanizing effect of science -- the fruit of the Tree of Knowledge -- the shadow tree of the Tree of Life. Traditional cosmology -- astrological cosmology -- projects humanity onto the heavens by means of the Zodiacal Man -- the Great Man or Logos. The Great Man on the Cosmic Tree is as Christ on the cross, so the crucifixion is an antitype of the cosmic type. Persons with a greater orientation toward matter are hostile to such an interpretation of the cosmos.

Milton explicitly endorses the astrological worldview in Book 10 when the world is modified for the seasonality that follows sin:

To the blanc Moone
Her office they prescrib'd, to th' other five
Thir planetarie motions and aspects
In Sextile, Square, and Trine, and Opposite,
Of noxious efficacie, and when to joyne [ 660 ]
In Synod unbenigne, and taught the fixt
Thir influence malignant when to showre,
Which of them rising with the Sun, or falling,
Should prove tempestuous . . .

I found this chart helpful:

(1) Before the Fall of the Angels

HEAVEN
------------------------
CHAOS

(2) After the Fall of the Angels

HEAVEN
------------------------
CHAOS
------------------------
HELL

(3) After the Creation of the World

HEAVEN
------------------------
THE WORLD
------------------------
CHAOS
------------------------
HELL



Sat Jan 24, 2009 8:35 am
Profile
User avatar
Years of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membership
Comandante Literario Supreme w/ Cheese

BookTalk.org Moderator
Silver Contributor

Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 2857
Location: Round Hill, VA
Thanks: 421
Thanked: 331 times in 252 posts
Gender: Female
Country: United States (us)

Post 
DWill wrote:
Here's a question to end with: The cosmology that Milton uses is Ptolemaic and from Greek myth. Yet Copernicus published his On Celestial Motions in 1543, more than 120 years before Milton began PL. Why didn't Milton get with the program? He wasn't some kind of throwback and was well aware of even recent developments in science.


It seems very logical that Milton would go with the old geocentric model of the universe. He is after all, telling a biblical story -- the bible puts the earth at the center of the universe. It also makes sense in that Milton is retelling a myth -- myth is not science. PL is allegory, creation myth and epic all rolled into one fantastical story; too much reality or science would undermine his purpose.


_________________
"may my mind stroll about hungry and fearless and thirsty and supple"
- e.e. cummings


Sat Jan 24, 2009 8:52 am
Profile Email
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 48 posts ] • Topic evaluate: Evaluations: 0, 0.00 on the average.Evaluations: 0, 0.00 on the average.Evaluations: 0, 0.00 on the average.Evaluations: 0, 0.00 on the average.Evaluations: 0, 0.00 on the average.  Go to page 1, 2, 3, 4  Next



Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 0 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:


BookTalk.org Links 
Forum Rules & Tips
Frequently Asked Questions
BBCode Explained
Info for Authors & Publishers
Featured Book Suggestions
Author Interview Transcripts
Be a Book Discussion Leader!
    

Love to talk about books but don't have time for our book discussion forums? For casual book talk join us on Facebook.

Featured Books

Books by New Authors



Booktalk.org on Facebook 



BookTalk.org is a free book discussion group or online reading group or book club. We read and talk about both fiction and non-fiction books as a group. We host live author chats where booktalk members can interact with and interview authors. We give away free books to our members in book giveaway contests. Our booktalks are open to everybody who enjoys talking about books. Our book forums include book reviews, author interviews and book resources for readers and book lovers. Discussing books is our passion. We're a literature forum, or reading forum. Register a free book club account today! Suggest nonfiction and fiction books. Authors and publishers are welcome to advertise their books or ask for an author chat or author interview.


Navigation 
MAIN NAVIGATION

HOMEFORUMSBOOKSTRANSCRIPTSOLD FORUMSADVERTISELINKSFAQDONATETERMS OF USEPRIVACY POLICY

BOOK FORUMS FOR ALL BOOKS WE HAVE DISCUSSED
Oliver Twist - by Charles DickensSense and Goodness Without God - by Richard CarrierFrankenstein - by Mary ShelleyThe Big Questions - by Simon BlackburnScience Was Born of Christianity - by Stacy TrasancosThe Happiness Hypothesis - by Jonathan HaidtA Game of Thrones - by George R. R. MartinTempesta's Dream - by Vincent LoCocoWhy Nations Fail - by Daron Acemoglu and James RobinsonThe Drowning Girl - Caitlin R. KiernanThe Consolations of the Forest - by Sylvain TessonThe Complete Heretic's Guide to Western Religion: The Mormons - by David FitzgeraldA Portrait of the Artist as a Young Man - by James JoyceThe Divine Comedy - by Dante AlighieriThe Magic of Reality - by Richard DawkinsDubliners - by James JoyceMy Name Is Red - by Orhan PamukThe World Until Yesterday - by Jared DiamondThe Man Who Was Thursday - by by G. K. ChestertonThe Better Angels of Our Nature by Steven PinkerLord Jim by Joseph ConradThe Hobbit by J. R. R. TolkienThe Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy by Douglas AdamsAtlas Shrugged by Ayn RandThinking, Fast and Slow - by Daniel KahnemanThe Righteous Mind - by Jonathan HaidtWorld War Z: An Oral History of the Zombie War by Max BrooksMoby Dick: or, the Whale by Herman MelvilleA Visit from the Goon Squad by Jennifer EganLost Memory of Skin: A Novel by Russell BanksThe Structure of Scientific Revolutions by Thomas S. KuhnHobbes: Leviathan by Thomas HobbesThe House of the Spirits - by Isabel AllendeArguably: Essays by Christopher HitchensThe Falls: A Novel (P.S.) by Joyce Carol OatesChrist in Egypt by D.M. MurdockThe Glass Bead Game: A Novel by Hermann HesseA Devil's Chaplain by Richard DawkinsThe Hero with a Thousand Faces by Joseph CampbellThe Brothers Karamazov by Fyodor DostoyevskyThe Adventures of Huckleberry Finn by Mark TwainThe Moral Landscape by Sam HarrisThe Decameron by Giovanni BoccaccioThe Road by Cormac McCarthyThe Grand Design by Stephen HawkingThe Evolution of God by Robert WrightThe Tin Drum by Gunter GrassGood Omens by Neil GaimanPredictably Irrational by Dan ArielyThe Wind-Up Bird Chronicle: A Novel by Haruki MurakamiALONE: Orphaned on the Ocean by Richard Logan & Tere Duperrault FassbenderDon Quixote by Miguel De CervantesMusicophilia by Oliver SacksDiary of a Madman and Other Stories by Nikolai GogolThe Passion of the Western Mind by Richard TarnasThe Left Hand of Darkness by Ursula K. Le GuinThe Genius of the Beast by Howard BloomAlice's Adventures in Wonderland by Lewis Carroll Empire of Illusion by Chris HedgesThe Sound and the Fury by William Faulkner The Extended Phenotype by Richard DawkinsSmoke and Mirrors by Neil GaimanThe Selfish Gene by Richard DawkinsWhen Good Thinking Goes Bad by Todd C. RinioloHouse of Leaves by Mark Z. DanielewskiAmerican Gods: A Novel by Neil GaimanPrimates and Philosophers by Frans de WaalThe Enormous Room by E.E. CummingsThe Picture of Dorian Gray by Oscar WildeGod Is Not Great: How Religion Poisons Everything by Christopher HitchensThe Name of the Rose by Umberto Eco Dreams From My Father by Barack Obama Paradise Lost by John Milton Bad Money by Kevin PhillipsThe Secret Garden by Frances Hodgson BurnettGodless: How an Evangelical Preacher Became One of America's Leading Atheists by Dan BarkerThe Things They Carried by Tim O'BrienThe Limits of Power by Andrew BacevichLolita by Vladimir NabokovOrlando by Virginia Woolf On Being Certain by Robert A. Burton50 reasons people give for believing in a god by Guy P. HarrisonWalden: Or, Life in the Woods by Henry David ThoreauExile and the Kingdom by Albert CamusOur Inner Ape by Frans de WaalYour Inner Fish by Neil ShubinNo Country for Old Men by Cormac McCarthyThe Age of American Unreason by Susan JacobyTen Theories of Human Nature by Leslie Stevenson & David HabermanHeart of Darkness by Joseph ConradThe Stuff of Thought by Stephen PinkerA Thousand Splendid Suns by Khaled HosseiniThe Lucifer Effect by Philip ZimbardoResponsibility and Judgment by Hannah ArendtInterventions by Noam ChomskyGodless in America by George A. RickerReligious Expression and the American Constitution by Franklyn S. HaimanDeep Economy by Phil McKibbenThe God Delusion by Richard DawkinsThe Third Chimpanzee by Jared DiamondThe Woman in the Dunes by Abe KoboEvolution vs. Creationism by Eugenie C. ScottThe Omnivore's Dilemma by Michael PollanI, Claudius by Robert GravesBreaking The Spell by Daniel C. DennettA Peace to End All Peace by David FromkinThe Time Traveler's Wife by Audrey NiffeneggerThe End of Faith by Sam HarrisEnder's Game by Orson Scott CardThe Curious Incident of the Dog in the Night-Time by Mark HaddonValue and Virtue in a Godless Universe by Erik J. WielenbergThe March by E. L DoctorowThe Ethical Brain by Michael GazzanigaFreethinkers: A History of American Secularism by Susan JacobyCollapse: How Societies Choose to Fail or Succeed by Jared DiamondThe Battle for God by Karen ArmstrongThe Future of Life by Edward O. WilsonWhat is Good? by A. C. GraylingCivilization and Its Enemies by Lee HarrisPale Blue Dot by Carl SaganHow We Believe: Science, Skepticism, and the Search for God by Michael ShermerLooking for Spinoza by Antonio DamasioLies and the Lying Liars Who Tell Them by Al FrankenThe Red Queen by Matt RidleyThe Blank Slate by Stephen PinkerUnweaving the Rainbow by Richard DawkinsAtheism: A Reader edited by S.T. JoshiGlobal Brain by Howard BloomThe Lucifer Principle by Howard BloomGuns, Germs and Steel by Jared DiamondThe Demon-Haunted World by Carl SaganBury My Heart at Wounded Knee by Dee BrownFuture Shock by Alvin Toffler

OTHER PAGES WORTH EXPLORING
Banned Book ListOur Amazon.com SalesMassimo Pigliucci Rationally SpeakingOnline Reading GroupTop 10 Atheism BooksFACTS Book Selections

cron
Copyright © BookTalk.org 2002-2014. All rights reserved.
Website developed by MidnightCoder.ca
Display Pagerank