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President Camacho  Senior

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Joined: 12 Apr 2008
Posts: 358
Thanks Given: 10 Received: 8 in 7 Posts
Gender: 
Location: Hampton, Ga

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Posted: Mon May 19, 2008 6:08 pm Post subject:
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"Only one of France's 82 universities makes it into Shanghai University's top 50 ranking. Auditoriums are over-crowded, campuses drab and deserted on weekends. Some 46% of all first-year undergraduates drop out. The brightest students do their best to avoid universities altogether..."
At least Sarkozy seems to be doing something about this... |
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Ophelia  Embodiment of Reason Gold Contributor


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Joined: 25 Nov 2007

Posts: 1436
Thanks Given: 2 Received: 13 in 13 Posts
Gender: 
Location: France

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Posted: Tue May 20, 2008 6:44 am Post subject:
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I'll go back to the description of University and Grandes Ecoles first.
In some fields you have a choice, and in some fields there's only one way.
University only: Medicine, Pharmacy, Law.
Grandes Ecoles only: Enginnering, veterinary School.
Business, though there are probbably a lot more ways
of studying business than I'm aware of.
If you can't get into one of the prrestigious Grandes Ecoles there are a lot of private schools which deliver non-prestige displomas-- for a lot of money (dubbed "petite école").
University or Grande Ecole: Maths, physics, sciences (not leading to an engineering degree), and Humanities.
Camacho wrote:
| Quote: |
| "Only one of France's 82 universities makes it into Shanghai University's top 50 ranking. |
The University is a public service, it's free and it's not selective. Given that, we don't expect our universities to make it to the top worldwide, since other countries use selection, but I wouldn't expect them to be at the bottom either.
Every year over 600,000 students sit for the Baccalauréat, and 300,000 enrol at university. I think this says it all, brilliance doesn't come into it.
For excellence we think of the Grandes Ecoles.
In the fields where there is selection, such as medicine, I expect we do as well as other western countries.
(Medicine has drastic selection exams at the end of the first year).
"Auditoriums are over-crowded, campuses drab and deserted on weekends. "
Yes, auditoriums are over-crowded in first and second year. We have a problem with the (lack of) selection system.
Governments have never wanted to make a choice by either introducing a selection in first year or financing the numbers of students that come and will not be able to follow or succeed.
Sarkozy is very good at making a lot of noise and saying that with him everything is going to be different, but his "reform" of university (which is about 6 months old) has not tackled the essential issues at all.
Universities still have no control over enrolment. |
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Ophelia  Embodiment of Reason Gold Contributor


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Joined: 25 Nov 2007

Posts: 1436
Thanks Given: 2 Received: 13 in 13 Posts
Gender: 
Location: France

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Posted: Tue May 20, 2008 1:04 pm Post subject:
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| Quote: |
| campuses drab and deserted on weekends. |
We have never had university campuses. The oldest universities were built in city centres, and in the twentieth century there would have been no room for enlargement.
Then new universities or new buildings were added starting in the 1960's, looking no better than any buildings from this period.
The newer ones (from the 1980's onwards) look better, and there may be some space and lawns around them.
In any case a university for us consists of auditoriums, classrooms, administrative offices and a library, so it's not surprising there should be little activity at weekends.
Who were you quoting? I think this would be typical of a journalist who describes a situation he does not understand.
Starting in the 1960's they started building student dormitaries and "restaurants universitaires"-- not necessarily next to the school buildings-- but where there was space-- still within the city limits though.
The dorms were created as help for students who can't afford private accomodation, so whether a student qualifies depends on his parents' income. Again, if they were built in the sixties, they were built cheaply and yes, they will look drab.
We don't have a word for "campus"; about twenty years ago the English word was made part of our language-- first to describe the American campuses we saw on television, and then perhaps because it sounded good.
My year at Cape Town University (1980) was my first and only contact with a campus. UCT is built on a hill, far from the city centre. The buildings are stylish, there are banks, numerous tennis courts and squash courts, etc... I was dazzled, but I knew that if there had been anything this beautiful in France it would have been reserved for the rich. Tuition fees were very high, and the only reason reason I could afford them was that the exchange rate was decidedly in my favour.
Now as for the actual learning, I had enrolled in English classes for English-speaking students, 2nd and third year classes, and it may sound surprising because I was comparing with the education I was getting in France in English as a second language, I thought UCT was not bad but France was better (!). |
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Ophelia  Embodiment of Reason Gold Contributor


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Posts: 1436
Thanks Given: 2 Received: 13 in 13 Posts
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Location: France

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Posted: Wed May 21, 2008 4:12 pm Post subject: University, or Classes Préparatoires?
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University, or Classes Préparatoires?
In some fields you can do either, so the student makes a choice.
If you need to work part time to finance your studies (even with no tuition fees you still need to pay for housing and food), university is the place.
It is meant to accomodate those extra activities.
The Classes Préparatoires will leave you no room for anything else-- although there is an evolution, as with everything else. For example I was very surprised to hear from my colleagues who work in classes prépa at my school that for students nowadays being extremely serious and busy meant just that, Monday to Friday-- even to wipe out your competition, studying on a weekend does not seem to be conceivable, it goes without saying that weekends are for parties and sleeping late.
Anyway, about the choice.
The classes préparatoires will give you instruction in your major and will somehow put pressure on you so that you also study other subjects as advanced subjects.
Engineering students will study maths, science and engineering, plus a foreign language, history, geography, French and philosophy.
To enter the best Grandes Ecoles, they will be selected mostly on things like French and English-- the idea being that they are all excellent at maths, and those who are also excellent in English will get in.
When you have a choice, you may choose the classes prépa because you want to avoid the first two years at university with all the problems.
Recently I've heard another type of reasoning which I found amusing.
The student will sometimes say "I'm not interested in the Grandes Ecoles but I'll still take the classes prépa because I know I'm lazy. If I don't have teachers watching me and putting pressure on me I won't study."
It wasn't meant like this, but the classes prépa offer a solution for a problem that seems to occur more and more often: a wish to learn coupled with a certain leaning towards laziness.
The university is good for students who are motivated and need some freedom to organize themselves. I don't know how much things have changed, but when I was a student they really left you alone and this suited me very well.
At university you would have exams twice a year, but with the classes prépa you get tests all the time, and you write 4-hour papers every Wednesday afternoon. Also you have to go to school, we have a roll call at the beginning of every period, the student has to write justifications if he doesn't come, and there is very little truancy. |
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Ophelia  Embodiment of Reason Gold Contributor


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Posts: 1436
Thanks Given: 2 Received: 13 in 13 Posts
Gender: 
Location: France

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Posted: Thu Jul 31, 2008 11:19 am Post subject: The French conquest of Algeria.
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The French conquest of Algeria.
It's taken me a long time to go back to this theme, my books about this have been sitting on my desk, unread, and sometimes I tell myself I ought to carry on. I think I might find a lot of things I'm not going to like.
The idea is to read Les Chevaux du Soleil, (the Horses of the Sun) by Jules Roy-- historical novel in thirteen volumes-- the first one of which I have bought. I like the details that are given in historical novels, I find that I understand things better and I remember better-- and also I have a problem with many history books being poorly written-- not that I expect history books to read like thrillers-- anyway, that's the idea, and I'll navigate between this and non-fiction when necessary.
Also I'll write some asides-- after all, anybody who reads my posts but only wants to know about Algeria can skip me and go to wiki...
Yesterday Mr P told us that George Bush had a degree from Yale, so I checked up the details, wondering what subjects he could possibly have studied that had proved so unhelpful in government... Being naturally biased in favour of... is it still called "the arts"?, I had a list of a few potentially unhelpful subjects to prepare for such a career (and no, I won't name any). As it turned out, Geoge W majored in history, and had also studied philosophy, and anthropology.
Now that was a serious blow! History, which I had always thought was the subject for which you have to be able to expand your mind and open up to all sorts of realities... Oh well, nobody likes being caught doing some simplistic thinking or associations. We all have our pantheons of gods, and history is in very good standing among mine-- though if I think about it, it also attracts some weird people with extreme political views, even (very) occasionally among my colleagues.
Now the standard comforting sentences would be "Ophelia, anybody can get a degree from Yale, 1968 was the easiest year of all, everybody knows his Dad bribed the examiners..." No, too easy, I am just disappointed.
Now hang on, there's my neighbour on the third floor who gave me a telling off because I once made him wait for the lift , thus showing my clear lack of education and respect for his university diplomas , various medals and connections at City Hall...He's a notorious local freak, and a retired history teacher...
Right, I'm feeling better already, I'll get over George W being a history major.
---
Later: As I was starting a new sub-topic with Roy's Les Chevaux du Soleil, I have finally decided to continue this writing on a blog, rather than here. |
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