You are browsing the forum as a guest. Please log in or register to access additional features.
Online reading group and book discussion forum
  FORUMS ABOUT BOOKS VIDEOS TRANSCRIPTS LINKS BLOGS DONATE CONTACT  

     Log in   Register 


BookTalk.org News
• The Secret Garden has won the Dec. 2008 Jan. 2009 Fiction book poll!
• Thank you Ophelia!!! Your donation is MUCH appreciated!
• Thank you for your very generous donation Interbane!
• 5 members are now enjoying the new "Email Digests" feature. Click on the digests link on the right at the top of every page to learn more. This is a great feature for keeping updated on forum activity.
• Regular casual chats are back on the menu! Check out the calendar for the schedule.

Links & Resources

Community Rules & Tips
For Authors & Publishers
Link to our old forum
Our Amazon.com Statistics
Book Suggestions
Rationally Speaking
Donations to BookTalk.org
FACTS Book Selections
BookTalk Forum Statistics
Games 170 FREE Games


Chat Room

Enter the BookTalk.org Chat Room

Enter our Chat Room

Nov. 2008 Chat Schedule
Dec. 2008 Chat Schedule
Jan. 2009 Chat Schedule


Featured Videos

BREAKING NEWS

Dan Barker's Deconversion

Andrew Bacevich
"The Limits of Power"

Andrew Bacevich on The Limits of Power

More Videos

Author Interviews


Featured Member Blogs

Ophelia's Blog
Lawrence's Blog
Penelope's Blog
Frank 013's Blog

- View all member Blogs
- See the latest Blog posts


Amazon Honor System
Amazon Honor System Click Here to Pay Learn More

Donate to BookTalk.org

Please support BookTalk.org by making a small donation today!

Who supports us?


Related Links

Show us where you live!
BookTalk.org Member Map

Display Pagerank


One by one, gorillas pay their last respects

 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    BookTalk.org Forum Index -> General Discussion
Author Message
Mr. Pessimistic Mr. Pessimistic has been starred
Professor
Silver Contributor
Silver Contributor

Avatar

Usergroups: None


Joined: 16 Jun 2004


Posts: 3524

Thanks
Given: 5
Received: 6 in 6 Posts

Gender: Male
Location: NJ - www.myspace.com/mrpessimistic
us.gif



PostPosted: Thu Dec 09, 2004 9:18 am    Post subject: One by one, gorillas pay their last respects Reply with quote
My wife sent me this from one of her groups.

Very sad!

Mr. P.



By William Mullen
Tribune staff reporter

December 8, 2004

After an exhausting weekend struggle with the end stages of kidney disease, Babs the gorilla was dead.

The five Brookfield Zoo keepers who knew her best asked everybody else to leave the private area where she lay on her back Monday morning, arms outstretched.

Once they were alone with the body, the keepers opened doors in the Tropic World building to admit the members of Babs' gorilla group.

It was a visitation, a "gorilla wake" that keepers said they felt might benefit the surviving animals. In Babs they had lost the most influential female in a highly complex social family.

Babs' 9-year-old daughter, Bana, was the first to file down to the body.

"It was heartbreaking to see," said Amy Coons, a gorilla keeper for the last six years. "Bana came in with this stunned look on her face."

Babs' mother, Alpha, 43, followed. There was Beta, a 43-year-old female, and Binti Jua, 16. Nadaya, a 3-year-old male, came, and Koola, 9, brought her infant daughter, whom Babs had showered with attention since her August birth.

Only the silverback male leader, Ramar, 36, stayed away.

Bana sat down next to Babs' head and held one of her dead mother's hands in one of her own, stroking her mother's stomach with the other.

"Then she laid down on the floor next to Babs," said Betty Green, a gorilla keeper for the last 17 years, "putting her head on Babs' outstretched arm.

"It was like they used to do in the exhibit, lying side by side on the mountain. Then Bana rose up and looked at us and moved to Babs' other side, tucked her head under the other arm, and stroked Babs' stomach."

The other animals, too, each came to sniff Babs and gently touch the body, she said.

"Koola inspected Babs' mouth for a while, then held her baby close to Babs, like she loved to do the last couple months, letting Babs admire her," Green said.

"Nadaya was like a kid at a funeral. While she was ill, he spent a lot of time resting with her. He came down [to her body] and inspected and touched her, but moved away pretty quickly, playing with a sweet potato and just sitting and watching from a distance.

"Alpha, her mother, acted a little strangely. She did a couple of displays by running in front of Babs' body, grabbed her legs, then ran past. She did that four times, not violently or moving the body, but like she was trying to wake Babs up.

"I had a headache for the rest of the day after all the tears I cried watching them," Green said.

The gathering, which zoo primate curator Melinda Pruett Jones described as "a gorilla wake," was a rough goodbye for the keepers in attendance: Coons, Green, Cherie Orum, Maureen Leahy and Craig Demitros.

The keepers had agreed after Babs, 30, was diagnosed last September with an incurable kidney condition that if she began suffering too much at the end she should be euthanized, and that once she was gone, Babs' family group should be allowed to be with her one last time.

They also agreed that for the last meeting, no humans except the keepers the animals interact with every day should be present, to avoid any distractions.

The emotion the animals showed in the farewell was not surprising, said Pruett Jones, because in life Babs had been a beloved, benevolent leader of the group.

"She was the dominant female of the group, the peacekeeper, the disciplinarian, the one who kept things in a harmonious state," Pruett Jones said.

Once the staff knew last September that it was only a matter of time before Babs would die, they decided to do everything they could to minimize her pain and make her as comfortable as possible to the end.

"There was nothing we could do to reverse the process or repair her kidneys," said Thomas Meehan, Brookfield's chief veterinarian. "We considered a transplant, but that would put another animal's life at risk for a risky experiment. We could have tried dialysis, but it would have immobilized her for long periods of time and kept her away from her social group. It was a quality-of-life decision."

Instead, they treated her with drugs and a special diet, meeting every day to confer on her condition. Babs maintained her leadership position in the group, even showing Koola how to behave now that she had a higher status in the group as the mother of an infant.

As her condition began to take a downturn Friday, the rest of the group stayed by her side constantly, Pruett Jones said. On Monday morning, when Babs refused all food, began shaking and had trouble moving around, it was obvious the end was near.

"The entire staff had agreed that if it was obvious she was on her way out, we wouldn't let her suffer," said Pruett Jones.

Meehan came to Tropic World and mixed sedatives into some special treats that Babs accepted. When the sedatives kicked in, he began to anesthetize her before giving her a euthanizing drug.

"She was so weak," Meehan said, "she died under the anesthesia."

Usually when gorillas die in zoos, they do so within their group, with all the gorillas present. For the euthanization process, Meehan and the staff worked on Babs in a private area.

In similar situations previously, when gorillas died in presence of humans rather than gorillas, that was it. The survivors had no further contact with the dead animal.

Last month, however, most of Brookfield's gorilla keepers attended a workshop at the zoo in Columbus, Ohio, where several weeks earlier keepers had euthanized a dying female gorilla, then let her family come in and see the body, videotaping the occasion. After viewing the video, the Brookfield keepers felt they should do the same if they had to euthanize Babs.

"We don't know if there is any benefit to the animals for doing this or not," said Craig Demitros, the lead keeper who has been with the zoo's gorillas for 20 years. In the wild, gorillas are known to pay respects to their dead in a similar fashion."

"We didn't think it would hurt anything," Demitros said.

The gorillas remained with Babs for about half an hour, but one by one they began to lose interest, so the keepers let them go back to the public display area and rejoin Ramar, the male leader.

"Bana was the last to go," Coons said. "She would get up, move a few steps, stop and turn back to stare at Babs. She started and stopped several times before she finally joined the others."
Copyright © 2004, Chicago Tribune

The one thing of which I am positive is that there is much of which to be negative - Mr. P.

I came to get down, I came to get down. So get out ya seat and jump around - House of Pain

HEY! Is that a ball in your court? - Mr. P

I came to kick ass and chew Bubble Gum...and I am all out of Bubble Gum - They Live, Roddy Piper

Back to top
  Facebook it
Chris OConnor Chris OConnor has been starred
Rhodes Scholar
BookTalk.org Owner

Avatar

Usergroups: None


Joined: 05 May 2002


Posts: 7267

Thanks
Given: 46
Received: 16 in 14 Posts

Gender: Male
Location: Florida
us.gif



PostPosted: Fri Dec 10, 2004 12:47 pm    Post subject: Re: One by one, gorillas pay their last respects Reply with quote
That was an amazing story. We share so much in common with all of the primates. I'm really pleased the keepers were sensitive enough to allow those animals that experience. Very sad though, but a part of life for all of us.

Quote:
Only the silverback male leader, Ramar, 36, stayed away.
This I found interesting. A silverback has an image to uphold, so perhaps this fact has something to do with his display of strength or even indifference to death. He can't show weakness or emotion in the wild.

Tara, have you read this? I'm sure this story will be touching to you.

Chris


Back to top
  Facebook it
Niall001 Niall001 has been starred
Stupendously Brilliant



Usergroups: None


Joined: 18 Sep 2003


Posts: 770

Thanks
Given: 0
Received: 0 in 0 Posts

Gender: Male



PostPosted: Sat Dec 11, 2004 6:57 am    Post subject: Re: One by one, gorillas pay their last respects Reply with quote
It isn't just primates that have funerals. Dogs, Weasels, Ferrets and Minxes also have funerals for the departed, at least on occassion.

Apart from dog funerals, these can be rather frightening events if you're unlucky enough to stumble upon one. The animals can get rather aggressive.

Let us agree, there is no one single reality. Not upon this stage, not in this world, all is in the mind... imagination is the only truth. Because it cannot be contradicted except by other imaginations - Richard Matheson

There are no conclusive indications by which waking life can be distinguished from sleep - Rene Descartes

Back to top
  Facebook it
Mr. Pessimistic Mr. Pessimistic has been starred
Professor
Silver Contributor
Silver Contributor

Avatar

Usergroups: None


Joined: 16 Jun 2004


Posts: 3524

Thanks
Given: 5
Received: 6 in 6 Posts

Gender: Male
Location: NJ - www.myspace.com/mrpessimistic
us.gif



PostPosted: Sat Dec 11, 2004 10:15 am    Post subject: Re: One by one, gorillas pay their last respects Reply with quote
Yeah Chris, it amazes me how closely linked we are. Must be god's doing...

Mr. P.

The one thing of which I am positive is that there is much of which to be negative - Mr. P.

I came to get down, I came to get down. So get out ya seat and jump around - House of Pain

HEY! Is that a ball in your court? - Mr. P

I came to kick ass and chew Bubble Gum...and I am all out of Bubble Gum - They Live, Roddy Piper

Edited by: misterpessimistic  at: 12/11/04 10:15 am
Back to top
  Facebook it
Chris OConnor Chris OConnor has been starred
Rhodes Scholar
BookTalk.org Owner

Avatar

Usergroups: None


Joined: 05 May 2002


Posts: 7267

Thanks
Given: 46
Received: 16 in 14 Posts

Gender: Male
Location: Florida
us.gif



PostPosted: Sun Dec 12, 2004 1:05 am    Post subject: Re: One by one, gorillas pay their last respects Reply with quote
Amen.


Back to top
  Facebook it
tarav tarav has been starred
Stupendously Brilliant
BookTalk.org Moderator
Silver Contributor
Silver Contributor

Avatar

Usergroups: None


Joined: 19 Jun 2003


Posts: 750

Thanks
Given: 0
Received: 0 in 0 Posts

Gender: Female
Location: NC


PostPosted: Sun Dec 12, 2004 12:07 pm    Post subject: Re: One by one, gorillas pay their last respects Reply with quote
That is a touching story. Of course even under the best of circumstances(and these keepers seem to care about the emotional state of the animals in their care), primates living in captivity is an unfortunate situation.

Back to top
  Facebook it
Mr. Pessimistic Mr. Pessimistic has been starred
Professor
Silver Contributor
Silver Contributor

Avatar

Usergroups: None


Joined: 16 Jun 2004


Posts: 3524

Thanks
Given: 5
Received: 6 in 6 Posts

Gender: Male
Location: NJ - www.myspace.com/mrpessimistic
us.gif



PostPosted: Mon Dec 13, 2004 10:32 am    Post subject: Re: One by one, gorillas pay their last respects Reply with quote
Are we (humans) not living in captivity as well? Is there total freedom?

We are captives of the political and economic system. Hell I would trade with these primates, at least they are taken care of by concerned individuals. I am not condoning captivity, just making an observation about life itself.

Is there really freedom?

Mr. P.

The one thing of which I am positive is that there is much of which to be negative - Mr. P.

I came to get down, I came to get down. So get out ya seat and jump around - House of Pain

HEY! Is that a ball in your court? - Mr. P

I came to kick ass and chew Bubble Gum...and I am all out of Bubble Gum - They Live, Roddy Piper

Back to top
  Facebook it
Niall001 Niall001 has been starred
Stupendously Brilliant



Usergroups: None


Joined: 18 Sep 2003


Posts: 770

Thanks
Given: 0
Received: 0 in 0 Posts

Gender: Male



PostPosted: Mon Dec 13, 2004 12:03 pm    Post subject: Re: One by one, gorillas pay their last respects Reply with quote
I don't think that the animals being in captivity is the bad thing, I think that it is the consequences of captivity that is bad. Some animals just can't function properly in captivity and this causes the animals distress.

As for Freedom, well you can do whatever you want in life (provided it is within your ability, clearly you can't fly etc.) , so long as you're willing to pay the price. And don't be suprised if someone tries to exercise their freedom by trying to stop you.

Let us agree, there is no one single reality. Not upon this stage, not in this world, all is in the mind... imagination is the only truth. Because it cannot be contradicted except by other imaginations - Richard Matheson

There are no conclusive indications by which waking life can be distinguished from sleep - Rene Descartes

Back to top
  Facebook it
Display replies from:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    BookTalk.org Forum Index -> General Discussion  
Page 1 of 1


 
Recent Topics
» Is an agnostic a cowardly atheist?
by Robert Tulip on Tue Dec 02, 2008 6:14 am

» The Secret Garden
by seespotrun2008 on Tue Dec 02, 2008 2:38 am

» Lolita, part 2, chapters 1-3
by giselle on Tue Dec 02, 2008 2:38 am

» Ch. 9: Sweetheart of the Song Tra Bong
by giselle on Tue Dec 02, 2008 2:13 am

» Suggest NON-FICTION books for our next official discussion
by Robert Tulip on Tue Dec 02, 2008 1:26 am

» The Fable of Knowledge, Friedrich Nietzsche
by Robert Tulip on Mon Dec 01, 2008 10:33 pm

» Hi!
by seespotrun2008 on Mon Dec 01, 2008 8:58 pm

» The Guardian Poetry column
by Saffron on Mon Dec 01, 2008 8:55 pm

» New York Times - Poetry and Poets
by Saffron on Mon Dec 01, 2008 8:51 pm

» Washington Post Poet's Choice
by Saffron on Mon Dec 01, 2008 8:35 pm




BookTalk.org Suggests


The Spirit Man by Sean Murphy

Stupid Reasons People Die: An Ingenious Plot for Defusing Deadly Diseases by John Corso, M.D.

Wife In The North by Judith O'Reilly

Coyote's Guide to Connecting with Nature: For Kids of All Ages and Their Mentors by Young, Haas, McGown

The Myth of the Oil Crisis: Overcoming The Challenges of Depletion, Geopolitics, And Global Warming by Robin M . Mills


Additional Book Suggestions


Related Links

Poll
Do you plan to spend less this holiday season?

Yes [6]
No [2]

You must login to vote


BookTalk.org is a book discussion group, also known as a reading group or book club. We read and talk about non-fiction books, as a group. Live author chats where book group members can interact with and interview authors are common. We often give away free books to our members in book giveaway contests. Our booktalks are open to everybody who enjoys booktalk.  Booktalk is a free online reading group that features quality book reviews, resources for readers and book lovers. Discussing books is our passion. Non-fiction chat, book forum, literature forum, or reading forum. Register a free book club account today. Suggest nonfiction books. Authors and publishers are welcome to plug their books or ask for an author chat or interview.

MAIN NAVIGATION

HOMEABOUTBOOKSTRANSCRIPTSOLD FORUMSLINKSBLOGSFAQDONATECONTACT

BOOKS WE HAVE DISCUSSED
The Secret Garden by Frances Hodgson BurnettGodless: How an Evangelical Preacher Became One of America's Leading Atheists by Dan BarkerThe Things They Carried by Tim O'BrienThe Limits of Power: The End of American ExceptionalismLolitaOrlando by Virginia Woolf On Being Certain by Robert A. Burton50 reasons people give for believing in a god by Guy P. HarrisonWalden: Or, Life in the Woods by Henry David ThoreauExile and the Kingdom by Albert CamusOur Inner Ape: A Leading Primatologist Explains Why We Are Who We Are by Frans de WaalYour Inner Fish: A Journey into the 3.5-Billion-Year-History of the Human Body by Neil ShubinNo Country for Old Men by Cormac McCarthyThe Age of American Unreason by Susan JacobyTen Theories of Human Nature by Leslie Stevenson & David HabermanHeart of Darkness by Joseph ConradThe Stuff of Thought: Language as a Window Into Human Nature by Stephen PinkerA Thousand Splendid Suns by Khaled HosseiniThe Lucifer Effect: Understanding How Good People Turn Evil by Philip ZimbardoResponsibility and Judgment by Hannah ArendtInterventions by Noam ChomskyGodless in America by George A. RickerReligious Expression and the American Constitution by Franklyn S. HaimanDeep Economy: The Wealth of Communities and the Durable Future by Phil McKibbenThe God Delusion by Richard DawkinsThe Third Chimpanzee: The Evolution and Future of the Human Animal by Jared DiamondThe Woman in the Dunes by Abe KoboEvolution vs. Creationism: An Introduction by Eugenie C. ScottThe Omnivore's Dilemma: A Natural History of Four Meals by Michael PollanI, Claudius : From the Autobiography of Tiberius Claudius, Born 10 B.C., Murdered and Deified A.D. 54 by Robert GravesBreaking The Spell: Religion as a Natural Phenomenon by Daniel C. DennettA Peace to End All Peace: The Fall of the Ottoman Empire and the Creation of the Modern Middle East Peace by David FromkinThe Time Traveler's Wife by Audrey NiffeneggerThe End of Faith: Religion, Terror, and the Future of Reason by Sam HarrisEnder's Game by Orson Scott CardThe Curious Incident of the Dog in the Night-Time by Mark HaddonValue and Virtue in a Godless Universe by Erik J. WielenbergThe March by E. L DoctorowThe Ethical Brain by Michael GazzanigaFreethinkers: A History of American Secularism by Susan JacobyCollapse: How Societies Choose to Fail or Succeed by Jared DiamondThe Battle for God by Karen ArmstrongThe Future of Life by Edward O. WilsonWhat is Good? The Search for the Best Way to Live by A. C. GraylingCivilization and Its Enemies: The Next Stage of History by Lee HarrisPale Blue Dot: A Vision of the Human Future in Space by Carl SaganHow We Believe: Science, Skepticism, and the Search for God by Michael ShermerLooking for Spinoza: Joy, Sorrow, and the Feeling Brain by Antonio DamasioLies and the Lying Liars Who Tell Them: A Fair and Balanced Look at the Right by Al FrankenThe Red Queen: Sex and the Evolution of Human Nature by Matt RidleyThe Blank Slate: The Modern Denial of Human Nature by Stephen PinkerUnweaving the Rainbow: Science, Delusion and the Appetite for Wonder by Richard DawkinsAtheism: A Reader edited by S.T. JoshiGlobal Brain: The Evolution of Mass Mind From the Big Bang To the 21st Century by Howard BloomThe Lucifer Principle: A Scientific Expedition into the Forces of Nature by Howard BloomGuns, Germs and Steel: The Fates of Human Societies by Jared DiamondThe Demon-Haunted World: Science as a Candle in the Dark by Carl SaganBury My Heart at Wounded Knee: An Indian History of the American West by Dee BrownFuture Shock by Alvin Toffler

OTHER PAGES
Baloney Detection KitBanned Book ListOur Amazon.com SalesMassimo Pigliucci Rationally SpeakingOnline Reading GroupTop 10 Atheism BooksFACTS Book Selections

Copyright © BookTalk.org 2002-2008. All rights reserved.
Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2002 phpBB Group
Website developed by MidnightCoder.ca