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Old Testament - Genesis (1 of 66) 
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Post Old Testament - Genesis (1 of 66)
Genesis
The Holy Bible: King James Version


In this book of beginnings the stories are about creation, early relationships between God and people, and God's promise to bless Abraham and his descendants

http://www.bartleby.com/108/01/



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Post Re: Old Testament - Genesis (1 of 66)
Genesis is one of the most controversial and problematic books of the Bible. It is the first book of the OT in our customary order though is is not thought to be the oldest book. It is also the first book of the five books of Moses frequently referred to as the Books of the Law.

Genesis starts with an account of the creation covering a span of six days and ends with God's chosen people in slavery in Egypt.

Controversial elements of Genesis include:
Whether many of the stories should be taken literally or as allegories.

The opening verse of Genesis:
"In the beginning, God* created** the heavens and the earth," is evocative of the opening of John's gospel, "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God and the Word was God."

*sn God. This frequently used Hebrew name for God (אֱלֹהִים,’elohim ) is a plural form. When it refers to the one true God, the singular verb is normally used, as here. The plural form indicates majesty; the name stresses God’s sovereignty and incomparability – he is the “God of gods.”
http://bible.org/netbible/index.htm

** The English verb “create” captures well the meaning of the Hebrew term in this context. The verb בָּרָא (bara’) always describes the divine activity of fashioning something new, fresh, and perfect. The verb does not necessarily describe creation out of nothing (see, for example, v. 27, where it refers to the creation of man); it often stresses forming anew, reforming, renewing (see Ps 51:10; Isa 43:15, 65:17).
http://bible.org/netbible/index.htm


Verse 2 says, "and the earth was without form and void, and darkness was upon the face of the deep."

As the scientific age dawned, the creation account was challenged especially as evidence mounted that the universe and earth were much older than the Genesis account seemed to suggest, and that the formation of the stars and planets would have taken longer than one day.

Some Bible defenders attempted to reconcile this problem by suggesting a gap in time between verses 1 and 2, that verse 1 describes an original creation in the distant past, perhaps billions of years and that after that creation a catastrophe occurred causing God to put creation into a prolonged stasis. The theory states that verse 2 begins with God hitting the reset button. As evidence of this they cite the word for created in verse 1 is not created out of nothing, but rather a renewing.

Verse 2 continued.
but the Spirit of God*** was moving over the surface of the water.

***ruwach <07307>
xwr ruwach
Pronunciation: roo'-akh
Origin: from 07306
Reference: TWOT - 2131a
PrtSpch: noun feminime
In Hebrew: xwr 205, xwrw 37, yxwr 29, xwrh 19, wxwr 15, xwrb 10, twxwr 9, xwrl 7, wxwrb 5, xwrbw 4, Kxwr 4, Kxwrb 4, Mxwr 3, xwrk 3, wxwrw 3, Mkxwr 3, txwrh 2, Mkxwrb 2, xwrlw 2, xwrmw 1, Kxwrm 1, twxrh 1, wxwrl 1, hxwr 1, xwrhw 1, yxwrw 1, yxwrb 1, Kxwrw 1, xwrm 1, twxr 1
In NET: wind 91, spirit 91, Spirit 34, breath 30, winds 11, mind 6, temper 5, spirits 4, side 4, strength 4, life 4, windstorm 3, breathe 3, sides 3, feelings 3, patience 2, humiliated 2, blast 2, life's breath 2, whirlwind 2, discouragement 2, wind-driven 2, discouraged 1, discernment 1, impatient 1, desire 1, everyone 1, encouraged 1, blustery 1, anxiety 1, attitude 1, anger 1, amazed 1, air 1, battle cry 1, inspired 1, conscience 1, breezy 1, breathes 1, breath of air 1, depression 1, morally 1, rage 1, restored 1, pride 1, presence 1, plan 1, stress 1, strong urge 1, windblown 1, windbag 1, thoughts 1, substance 1, place 1, peace 1, windy 1, motives 1, minds 1, mere word 1, me 1, mouth 1, moved 1, panic 1, one 1, obstinate 1, nothing 1, it 1
In AV: Spirit or spirit 232, wind 92, breath 27, side 6, mind 5, blast 4, vain 2, air 1, anger 1, cool 1, courage 1, misc 6
Count: 378
Definition: 1) wind, breath, mind, spirit
1a) breath
1b) wind
1b1) of heaven
1b2) quarter (of wind), side
1b3) breath of air
1b4) air, gas
1b5) vain, empty thing
1c) spirit (as that which breathes quickly in animation or agitation)
1c1) spirit, animation, vivacity, vigour
1c2) courage
1c3) temper, anger
1c4) impatience, patience
1c5) spirit, disposition (as troubled, bitter, discontented)
1c6) disposition (of various kinds), unaccountable or uncontrollable
impulse
1c7) prophetic spirit
1d) spirit (of the living, breathing being in man and animals)
1d1) as gift, preserved by God, God's spirit, departing at
death, disembodied being
1e) spirit (as seat of emotion)
1e1) desire
1e2) sorrow, trouble
1f) spirit
1f1) as seat or organ of mental acts
1f2) rarely of the will
1f3) as seat especially of moral character
1g) Spirit of God, the third person of the triune God, the Holy Spirit,
coequal, coeternal with the Father and the Son
1g1) as inspiring ecstatic state of prophecy
1g2) as impelling prophet to utter instruction or warning
1g3) imparting warlike energy and executive and administrative power
1g4) as endowing men with various gifts
1g5) as energy of life
1g6) as manifest in the Shekinah glory
1g7) never referred to as a depersonalised force
________________________________________
from 7306; wind; by resemblance breath, i.e. a sensible (or
even violent) exhalation; figuratively, life, anger,
unsubstantiality; by extension, a region of the sky; by
resemblance spirit, but only of a rational being (including
its expression and functions):-air, anger, blast, breath, X
cool, courage, mind, X quarter, X side, spirit((-ual)),
tempest, X vain, ((whirl-))wind(-y).
see HEBREW for 07306
http://net.bible.org/strong.php?id=07307


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“I think one of [James Hoffmeier’s] most important points is that we have unrealistic expectations for what archaeology can offer us as far as ‘proving’ Exodus: ‘After all, what evidence, short of an inscription in a Proto-Canaanite script stating “bricks made by Hebrew slaves” would be considered proof that the Israelites were in Egypt. Archaeology’s ability … is quite limited.’” Jeff Lambert, Editorial Associate, Biblical Archaeological Review. via email January 26, 2010 8:20:58 AM. [email receipiant redacted for privacy reasons. See Thread-The Bible's Buried Secrets for full text.]


Fri Feb 05, 2010 10:37 am
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Post Re: Old Testament - Genesis (1 of 66)
Doesn't "God of gods" imply there are more gods?



Fri Feb 05, 2010 12:39 pm
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Post Re: Old Testament - Genesis (1 of 66)
Isn't having something that is the most controversial and difficult book a rather non-productive entry, especially for non-believers?


_________________
Gods and spirits are parasitic--Pascal Boyer

Religion is the only force in the world that lets a person have his prejudice or hatred and feel good about it --S C Hitchcock

Believe those who are seeking the truth. Doubt those who find it. --André Gide


Fri Feb 05, 2010 1:11 pm
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Post Re: Old Testament - Genesis (1 of 66)
Quote:
xwr ruwach
Pronunciation: roo'-akh
Origin: from 07306
Reference: TWOT - 2131a
PrtSpch: noun feminime
In Hebrew: xwr 205, xwrw 37, yxwr 29, xwrh 19, wxwr 15, xwrb 10, twxwr 9, xwrl 7, wxwrb 5, xwrbw 4, Kxwr 4, Kxwrb 4, Mxwr 3, xwrk 3, wxwrw 3, Mkxwr 3, txwrh 2, Mkxwrb 2, xwrlw 2, xwrmw 1, Kxwrm 1, twxrh 1, wxwrl 1, hxwr 1, xwrhw 1, yxwrw 1, yxwrb 1, Kxwrw 1, xwrm 1, twxr 1
In NET: wind 91, spirit 91, Spirit 34, breath 30, winds 11, mind 6, temper 5, spirits 4, side 4, strength 4, life 4, windstorm 3, breathe 3, sides 3, feelings 3, patience 2, humiliated 2, blast 2, life's breath 2, whirlwind 2, discouragement 2, wind-driven 2, discouraged 1, discernment 1, impatient 1, desire 1, everyone 1, encouraged 1, blustery 1, anxiety 1, attitude 1, anger 1, amazed 1, air 1, battle cry 1, inspired 1, conscience 1, breezy 1, breathes 1, breath of air 1, depression 1, morally 1, rage 1, restored 1, pride 1, presence 1, plan 1, stress 1, strong urge 1, windblown 1, windbag 1, thoughts 1, substance 1, place 1, peace 1, windy 1, motives 1, minds 1, mere word 1, me 1, mouth 1, moved 1, panic 1, one 1, obstinate 1, nothing 1, it 1
In AV: Spirit or spirit 232, wind 92, breath 27, side 6, mind 5, blast 4, vain 2, air 1, anger 1, cool 1, courage 1, misc 6
Count: 378


Is this sort of analysis necessary to understand Genesis? I predict few participants in this discussion will be interested in the above sort of stuff. For the life of me I don't have any idea why it was posted. But if we're going to all have a meaningful discussion we should probably NOT make posts containing:

Quote:
xwr 205, xwrw 37, yxwr 29, xwrh 19, wxwr 15, xwrb 10, twxwr 9, xwrl 7, wxwrb 5, xwrbw 4, Kxwr 4, Kxwrb 4, Mxwr 3, xwrk 3, wxwrw 3, Mkxwr 3, txwrh 2, Mkxwrb 2, xwrlw 2, xwrmw 1, Kxwrm 1, twxrh 1, wxwrl 1, hxwr 1, xwrhw 1, yxwrw 1, yxwrb 1, Kxwrw 1, xwrm 1, twxr 1



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Post Re: Old Testament - Genesis (1 of 66)
oblivion wrote:
Isn't having something that is the most controversial and difficult book a rather non-productive entry, especially for non-believers?


It isn't at all controversial or difficult. It's a pretty straightforward creation myth.


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Post Re: Old Testament - Genesis (1 of 66)
Chris,
I will add to my previous post that you missed something interesting in the definition I posted. It jumps right out at me but if you don't see it, I'll let it go.

No I won't because I owe you.

The word for God is plural and feminine.


_________________
“I think one of [James Hoffmeier’s] most important points is that we have unrealistic expectations for what archaeology can offer us as far as ‘proving’ Exodus: ‘After all, what evidence, short of an inscription in a Proto-Canaanite script stating “bricks made by Hebrew slaves” would be considered proof that the Israelites were in Egypt. Archaeology’s ability … is quite limited.’” Jeff Lambert, Editorial Associate, Biblical Archaeological Review. via email January 26, 2010 8:20:58 AM. [email receipiant redacted for privacy reasons. See Thread-The Bible's Buried Secrets for full text.]


Last edited by stahrwe on Fri Feb 05, 2010 1:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.



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Post Re: Old Testament - Genesis (1 of 66)
geo wrote:
oblivion wrote:
Isn't having something that is the most controversial and difficult book a rather non-productive entry, especially for non-believers?


It isn't at all controversial or difficult. It's a pretty straightforward creation myth.


Very good, I'm glad to hear that it isn't controversial. I will ignore the arguments from anyone who doesn't believe it is to be interpreted literally from now on.

And you are correct, it is a pretty straightforward creation myth, except for missing the cow licking the salt block, or the giant turtle, or the ...


_________________
“I think one of [James Hoffmeier’s] most important points is that we have unrealistic expectations for what archaeology can offer us as far as ‘proving’ Exodus: ‘After all, what evidence, short of an inscription in a Proto-Canaanite script stating “bricks made by Hebrew slaves” would be considered proof that the Israelites were in Egypt. Archaeology’s ability … is quite limited.’” Jeff Lambert, Editorial Associate, Biblical Archaeological Review. via email January 26, 2010 8:20:58 AM. [email receipiant redacted for privacy reasons. See Thread-The Bible's Buried Secrets for full text.]


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Post Re: Old Testament - Genesis (1 of 66)
Why let it go? What is it?



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Post Re: Old Testament - Genesis (1 of 66)
geo wrote:
oblivion wrote:
Isn't having something that is the most controversial and difficult book a rather non-productive entry, especially for non-believers?


It isn't at all controversial or difficult. It's a pretty straightforward creation myth.


Granted. :blush: But I was going from the opinion that if Christians found it controversial, then explaining it to non-believers didn't make sense--as in, someone explaining a concept that they themselves have difficulty comprehending.


_________________
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Religion is the only force in the world that lets a person have his prejudice or hatred and feel good about it --S C Hitchcock

Believe those who are seeking the truth. Doubt those who find it. --André Gide


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Post Re: Old Testament - Genesis (1 of 66)
Chris OConnor wrote:
Why let it go? What is it?


You're right, I edited my post before I saw this and added the following:

The word used for God's Spirit is plural, expected, but also feminine. Problematic? Yes from my point of view, probably no from yours since god does not exist.

BTW, I owe and appreciate this forum.


_________________
“I think one of [James Hoffmeier’s] most important points is that we have unrealistic expectations for what archaeology can offer us as far as ‘proving’ Exodus: ‘After all, what evidence, short of an inscription in a Proto-Canaanite script stating “bricks made by Hebrew slaves” would be considered proof that the Israelites were in Egypt. Archaeology’s ability … is quite limited.’” Jeff Lambert, Editorial Associate, Biblical Archaeological Review. via email January 26, 2010 8:20:58 AM. [email receipiant redacted for privacy reasons. See Thread-The Bible's Buried Secrets for full text.]


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Post Re: Old Testament - Genesis (1 of 66)
oblivion wrote:
geo wrote:
oblivion wrote:
Isn't having something that is the most controversial and difficult book a rather non-productive entry, especially for non-believers?


It isn't at all controversial or difficult. It's a pretty straightforward creation myth.


Granted. :blush: But I was going from the opinion that if Christians found it controversial, then explaining it to non-believers didn't make sense--as in, someone explaining a concept that they themselves have difficulty comprehending.


Believe me, if I had a dime for every thing in the Bible that is controversial, I could retire. I am willing to admit issues in an open forum but in an argument I will cede no points.


_________________
“I think one of [James Hoffmeier’s] most important points is that we have unrealistic expectations for what archaeology can offer us as far as ‘proving’ Exodus: ‘After all, what evidence, short of an inscription in a Proto-Canaanite script stating “bricks made by Hebrew slaves” would be considered proof that the Israelites were in Egypt. Archaeology’s ability … is quite limited.’” Jeff Lambert, Editorial Associate, Biblical Archaeological Review. via email January 26, 2010 8:20:58 AM. [email receipiant redacted for privacy reasons. See Thread-The Bible's Buried Secrets for full text.]


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Post Re: Old Testament - Genesis (1 of 66)
This should be fun as long as we all keep our cool and try not to zing each other with witty insults. :)



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Post Re: Old Testament - Genesis (1 of 66)
oblivion wrote:
geo wrote:
oblivion wrote:
Isn't having something that is the most controversial and difficult book a rather non-productive entry, especially for non-believers?


It isn't at all controversial or difficult. It's a pretty straightforward creation myth.


Granted. :blush: But I was going from the opinion that if Christians found it controversial, then explaining it to non-believers didn't make sense--as in, someone explaining a concept that they themselves have difficulty comprehending.


Yes I see where you're coming from. I was more responding to Stahrwe's statement that Genesis is controversial and difficult. I just don't see that at all and I've never heard that. Like I said it's very straightforward.

Quote:
1. In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.
2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.
3 And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.
4 And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness.
5 And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day.
6 And God said, Let there be a firmament in the midst of the waters, and let it divide the waters from the waters.
etc.


This is actually beautiful in its simplicity and is very well written in that respect.

[quote]


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Post Re: Old Testament - Genesis (1 of 66)
I will definitely concede to its beauty. Nice visuals, poetic.


_________________
Gods and spirits are parasitic--Pascal Boyer

Religion is the only force in the world that lets a person have his prejudice or hatred and feel good about it --S C Hitchcock

Believe those who are seeking the truth. Doubt those who find it. --André Gide


Sat Feb 06, 2010 3:02 am
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The Weekend Trippers’ is the true story of Rfn Ted Taylor and his part in the heroic last stand in Calais May 1940. The Weekend Trippers is based on Ted’s diaries written at the… more

Posted: 87 days ago
by carolemct




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Moby Dick: or, the Whale by Herman MelvilleA Visit from the Goon Squad by Jennifer EganLost Memory of Skin: A Novel by Russell BanksThe Structure of Scientific Revolutions by Thomas S. KuhnHobbes: Leviathan by Thomas HobbesThe House of the Spirits - by Isabel AllendeArguably: Essays by Christopher HitchensThe Falls: A Novel (P.S.) by Joyce Carol OatesChrist in Egypt by D.M. MurdockThe Glass Bead Game: A Novel by Hermann HesseA Devil's Chaplain by Richard DawkinsThe Hero with a Thousand Faces by Joseph CampbellThe Brothers Karamazov by Fyodor DostoyevskyThe Adventures of Huckleberry Finn by Mark TwainThe Moral Landscape by Sam HarrisThe Decameron by Giovanni BoccaccioThe Road by Cormac McCarthyThe Grand Design by Stephen HawkingThe Evolution of God by Robert WrightThe Tin Drum by Gunter GrassGood Omens by Neil GaimanPredictably Irrational by Dan ArielyThe Wind-Up Bird Chronicle: A Novel by Haruki MurakamiALONE: Orphaned on the Ocean by Richard Logan & Tere Duperrault FassbenderDon Quixote by Miguel De CervantesMusicophilia by Oliver SacksDiary of a Madman and Other Stories by Nikolai GogolThe Passion of the Western Mind by Richard TarnasThe Left Hand of Darkness by Ursula K. Le GuinThe Genius of the Beast by Howard BloomAlice's Adventures in Wonderland by Lewis Carroll Empire of Illusion by Chris HedgesThe Sound and the Fury by William Faulkner The Extended Phenotype by Richard DawkinsSmoke and Mirrors by Neil GaimanThe Selfish Gene by Richard DawkinsWhen Good Thinking Goes Bad by Todd C. RinioloHouse of Leaves by Mark Z. DanielewskiAmerican Gods: A Novel by Neil GaimanPrimates and Philosophers by Frans de WaalThe Enormous Room by E.E. CummingsThe Picture of Dorian Gray by Oscar WildeGod Is Not Great: How Religion Poisons Everything by Christopher HitchensThe Name of the Rose by Umberto Eco Dreams From My Father by Barack Obama Paradise Lost by John Milton Bad Money by Kevin PhillipsThe Secret Garden by Frances Hodgson BurnettGodless: How an Evangelical Preacher Became One of America's Leading Atheists by Dan BarkerThe Things They Carried by Tim O'BrienThe Limits of Power by Andrew BacevichLolita by Vladimir NabokovOrlando by Virginia Woolf On Being Certain by Robert A. Burton50 reasons people give for believing in a god by Guy P. HarrisonWalden: Or, Life in the Woods by Henry David ThoreauExile and the Kingdom by Albert CamusOur Inner Ape by Frans de WaalYour Inner Fish by Neil ShubinNo Country for Old Men by Cormac McCarthyThe Age of American Unreason by Susan JacobyTen Theories of Human Nature by Leslie Stevenson & David HabermanHeart of Darkness by Joseph ConradThe Stuff of Thought by Stephen PinkerA Thousand Splendid Suns by Khaled HosseiniThe Lucifer Effect by Philip ZimbardoResponsibility and Judgment by Hannah ArendtInterventions by Noam ChomskyGodless in America by George A. RickerReligious Expression and the American Constitution by Franklyn S. HaimanDeep Economy by Phil McKibbenThe God Delusion by Richard DawkinsThe Third Chimpanzee by Jared DiamondThe Woman in the Dunes by Abe KoboEvolution vs. Creationism by Eugenie C. ScottThe Omnivore's Dilemma by Michael PollanI, Claudius by Robert GravesBreaking The Spell by Daniel C. DennettA Peace to End All Peace by David FromkinThe Time Traveler's Wife by Audrey NiffeneggerThe End of Faith by Sam HarrisEnder's Game by Orson Scott CardThe Curious Incident of the Dog in the Night-Time by Mark HaddonValue and Virtue in a Godless Universe by Erik J. WielenbergThe March by E. L DoctorowThe Ethical Brain by Michael GazzanigaFreethinkers: A History of American Secularism by Susan JacobyCollapse: How Societies Choose to Fail or Succeed by Jared DiamondThe Battle for God by Karen ArmstrongThe Future of Life by Edward O. WilsonWhat is Good? by A. C. GraylingCivilization and Its Enemies by Lee HarrisPale Blue Dot by Carl SaganHow We Believe: Science, Skepticism, and the Search for God by Michael ShermerLooking for Spinoza by Antonio DamasioLies and the Lying Liars Who Tell Them by Al FrankenThe Red Queen by Matt RidleyThe Blank Slate by Stephen PinkerUnweaving the Rainbow by Richard DawkinsAtheism: A Reader edited by S.T. JoshiGlobal Brain by Howard BloomThe Lucifer Principle by Howard BloomGuns, Germs and Steel by Jared DiamondThe Demon-Haunted World by Carl SaganBury My Heart at Wounded Knee by Dee BrownFuture Shock by Alvin Toffler

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