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Old Testament - Genesis (1 of 66)
Genesis The Holy Bible: King James Version
In this book of beginnings the stories are about creation, early relationships between God and people, and God's promise to bless Abraham and his descendants
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Re: Old Testament - Genesis (1 of 66)
Genesis is one of the most controversial and problematic books of the Bible. It is the first book of the OT in our customary order though is is not thought to be the oldest book. It is also the first book of the five books of Moses frequently referred to as the Books of the Law.
Genesis starts with an account of the creation covering a span of six days and ends with God's chosen people in slavery in Egypt.
Controversial elements of Genesis include: Whether many of the stories should be taken literally or as allegories.
The opening verse of Genesis: "In the beginning, God* created** the heavens and the earth," is evocative of the opening of John's gospel, "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God and the Word was God."
*sn God. This frequently used Hebrew name for God (אֱלֹהִים,’elohim ) is a plural form. When it refers to the one true God, the singular verb is normally used, as here. The plural form indicates majesty; the name stresses God’s sovereignty and incomparability – he is the “God of gods.” http://bible.org/netbible/index.htm
** The English verb “create” captures well the meaning of the Hebrew term in this context. The verb בָּרָא (bara’) always describes the divine activity of fashioning something new, fresh, and perfect. The verb does not necessarily describe creation out of nothing (see, for example, v. 27, where it refers to the creation of man); it often stresses forming anew, reforming, renewing (see Ps 51:10; Isa 43:15, 65:17). http://bible.org/netbible/index.htm
Verse 2 says, "and the earth was without form and void, and darkness was upon the face of the deep."
As the scientific age dawned, the creation account was challenged especially as evidence mounted that the universe and earth were much older than the Genesis account seemed to suggest, and that the formation of the stars and planets would have taken longer than one day.
Some Bible defenders attempted to reconcile this problem by suggesting a gap in time between verses 1 and 2, that verse 1 describes an original creation in the distant past, perhaps billions of years and that after that creation a catastrophe occurred causing God to put creation into a prolonged stasis. The theory states that verse 2 begins with God hitting the reset button. As evidence of this they cite the word for created in verse 1 is not created out of nothing, but rather a renewing.
Verse 2 continued. but the Spirit of God*** was moving over the surface of the water.
***ruwach <07307> xwr ruwach Pronunciation: roo'-akh Origin: from 07306 Reference: TWOT - 2131a PrtSpch: noun feminime In Hebrew: xwr 205, xwrw 37, yxwr 29, xwrh 19, wxwr 15, xwrb 10, twxwr 9, xwrl 7, wxwrb 5, xwrbw 4, Kxwr 4, Kxwrb 4, Mxwr 3, xwrk 3, wxwrw 3, Mkxwr 3, txwrh 2, Mkxwrb 2, xwrlw 2, xwrmw 1, Kxwrm 1, twxrh 1, wxwrl 1, hxwr 1, xwrhw 1, yxwrw 1, yxwrb 1, Kxwrw 1, xwrm 1, twxr 1 In NET: wind 91, spirit 91, Spirit 34, breath 30, winds 11, mind 6, temper 5, spirits 4, side 4, strength 4, life 4, windstorm 3, breathe 3, sides 3, feelings 3, patience 2, humiliated 2, blast 2, life's breath 2, whirlwind 2, discouragement 2, wind-driven 2, discouraged 1, discernment 1, impatient 1, desire 1, everyone 1, encouraged 1, blustery 1, anxiety 1, attitude 1, anger 1, amazed 1, air 1, battle cry 1, inspired 1, conscience 1, breezy 1, breathes 1, breath of air 1, depression 1, morally 1, rage 1, restored 1, pride 1, presence 1, plan 1, stress 1, strong urge 1, windblown 1, windbag 1, thoughts 1, substance 1, place 1, peace 1, windy 1, motives 1, minds 1, mere word 1, me 1, mouth 1, moved 1, panic 1, one 1, obstinate 1, nothing 1, it 1 In AV: Spirit or spirit 232, wind 92, breath 27, side 6, mind 5, blast 4, vain 2, air 1, anger 1, cool 1, courage 1, misc 6 Count: 378 Definition: 1) wind, breath, mind, spirit 1a) breath 1b) wind 1b1) of heaven 1b2) quarter (of wind), side 1b3) breath of air 1b4) air, gas 1b5) vain, empty thing 1c) spirit (as that which breathes quickly in animation or agitation) 1c1) spirit, animation, vivacity, vigour 1c2) courage 1c3) temper, anger 1c4) impatience, patience 1c5) spirit, disposition (as troubled, bitter, discontented) 1c6) disposition (of various kinds), unaccountable or uncontrollable impulse 1c7) prophetic spirit 1d) spirit (of the living, breathing being in man and animals) 1d1) as gift, preserved by God, God's spirit, departing at death, disembodied being 1e) spirit (as seat of emotion) 1e1) desire 1e2) sorrow, trouble 1f) spirit 1f1) as seat or organ of mental acts 1f2) rarely of the will 1f3) as seat especially of moral character 1g) Spirit of God, the third person of the triune God, the Holy Spirit, coequal, coeternal with the Father and the Son 1g1) as inspiring ecstatic state of prophecy 1g2) as impelling prophet to utter instruction or warning 1g3) imparting warlike energy and executive and administrative power 1g4) as endowing men with various gifts 1g5) as energy of life 1g6) as manifest in the Shekinah glory 1g7) never referred to as a depersonalised force ________________________________________ from 7306; wind; by resemblance breath, i.e. a sensible (or even violent) exhalation; figuratively, life, anger, unsubstantiality; by extension, a region of the sky; by resemblance spirit, but only of a rational being (including its expression and functions):-air, anger, blast, breath, X cool, courage, mind, X quarter, X side, spirit((-ual)), tempest, X vain, ((whirl-))wind(-y). see HEBREW for 07306 http://net.bible.org/strong.php?id=07307
_________________ “I think one of [James Hoffmeier’s] most important points is that we have unrealistic expectations for what archaeology can offer us as far as ‘proving’ Exodus: ‘After all, what evidence, short of an inscription in a Proto-Canaanite script stating “bricks made by Hebrew slaves” would be considered proof that the Israelites were in Egypt. Archaeology’s ability … is quite limited.’” Jeff Lambert, Editorial Associate, Biblical Archaeological Review. via email January 26, 2010 8:20:58 AM. [email receipiant redacted for privacy reasons. See Thread-The Bible's Buried Secrets for full text.]
Is this sort of analysis necessary to understand Genesis? I predict few participants in this discussion will be interested in the above sort of stuff. For the life of me I don't have any idea why it was posted. But if we're going to all have a meaningful discussion we should probably NOT make posts containing:
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Re: Old Testament - Genesis (1 of 66)
Chris, I will add to my previous post that you missed something interesting in the definition I posted. It jumps right out at me but if you don't see it, I'll let it go.
No I won't because I owe you.
The word for God is plural and feminine.
_________________ “I think one of [James Hoffmeier’s] most important points is that we have unrealistic expectations for what archaeology can offer us as far as ‘proving’ Exodus: ‘After all, what evidence, short of an inscription in a Proto-Canaanite script stating “bricks made by Hebrew slaves” would be considered proof that the Israelites were in Egypt. Archaeology’s ability … is quite limited.’” Jeff Lambert, Editorial Associate, Biblical Archaeological Review. via email January 26, 2010 8:20:58 AM. [email receipiant redacted for privacy reasons. See Thread-The Bible's Buried Secrets for full text.]
Last edited by stahrwe on Fri Feb 05, 2010 1:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Old Testament - Genesis (1 of 66)
geo wrote:
oblivion wrote:
Isn't having something that is the most controversial and difficult book a rather non-productive entry, especially for non-believers?
It isn't at all controversial or difficult. It's a pretty straightforward creation myth.
Very good, I'm glad to hear that it isn't controversial. I will ignore the arguments from anyone who doesn't believe it is to be interpreted literally from now on.
And you are correct, it is a pretty straightforward creation myth, except for missing the cow licking the salt block, or the giant turtle, or the ...
_________________ “I think one of [James Hoffmeier’s] most important points is that we have unrealistic expectations for what archaeology can offer us as far as ‘proving’ Exodus: ‘After all, what evidence, short of an inscription in a Proto-Canaanite script stating “bricks made by Hebrew slaves” would be considered proof that the Israelites were in Egypt. Archaeology’s ability … is quite limited.’” Jeff Lambert, Editorial Associate, Biblical Archaeological Review. via email January 26, 2010 8:20:58 AM. [email receipiant redacted for privacy reasons. See Thread-The Bible's Buried Secrets for full text.]
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Re: Old Testament - Genesis (1 of 66)
geo wrote:
oblivion wrote:
Isn't having something that is the most controversial and difficult book a rather non-productive entry, especially for non-believers?
It isn't at all controversial or difficult. It's a pretty straightforward creation myth.
Granted. But I was going from the opinion that if Christians found it controversial, then explaining it to non-believers didn't make sense--as in, someone explaining a concept that they themselves have difficulty comprehending.
_________________ Gods and spirits are parasitic--Pascal Boyer
Religion is the only force in the world that lets a person have his prejudice or hatred and feel good about it --S C Hitchcock
Believe those who are seeking the truth. Doubt those who find it.--André Gide
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Re: Old Testament - Genesis (1 of 66)
Chris OConnor wrote:
Why let it go? What is it?
You're right, I edited my post before I saw this and added the following:
The word used for God's Spirit is plural, expected, but also feminine. Problematic? Yes from my point of view, probably no from yours since god does not exist.
BTW, I owe and appreciate this forum.
_________________ “I think one of [James Hoffmeier’s] most important points is that we have unrealistic expectations for what archaeology can offer us as far as ‘proving’ Exodus: ‘After all, what evidence, short of an inscription in a Proto-Canaanite script stating “bricks made by Hebrew slaves” would be considered proof that the Israelites were in Egypt. Archaeology’s ability … is quite limited.’” Jeff Lambert, Editorial Associate, Biblical Archaeological Review. via email January 26, 2010 8:20:58 AM. [email receipiant redacted for privacy reasons. See Thread-The Bible's Buried Secrets for full text.]
Joined: Aug 2009 Posts: 4141 Location: Florida
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Re: Old Testament - Genesis (1 of 66)
oblivion wrote:
geo wrote:
oblivion wrote:
Isn't having something that is the most controversial and difficult book a rather non-productive entry, especially for non-believers?
It isn't at all controversial or difficult. It's a pretty straightforward creation myth.
Granted. But I was going from the opinion that if Christians found it controversial, then explaining it to non-believers didn't make sense--as in, someone explaining a concept that they themselves have difficulty comprehending.
Believe me, if I had a dime for every thing in the Bible that is controversial, I could retire. I am willing to admit issues in an open forum but in an argument I will cede no points.
_________________ “I think one of [James Hoffmeier’s] most important points is that we have unrealistic expectations for what archaeology can offer us as far as ‘proving’ Exodus: ‘After all, what evidence, short of an inscription in a Proto-Canaanite script stating “bricks made by Hebrew slaves” would be considered proof that the Israelites were in Egypt. Archaeology’s ability … is quite limited.’” Jeff Lambert, Editorial Associate, Biblical Archaeological Review. via email January 26, 2010 8:20:58 AM. [email receipiant redacted for privacy reasons. See Thread-The Bible's Buried Secrets for full text.]
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Re: Old Testament - Genesis (1 of 66)
oblivion wrote:
geo wrote:
oblivion wrote:
Isn't having something that is the most controversial and difficult book a rather non-productive entry, especially for non-believers?
It isn't at all controversial or difficult. It's a pretty straightforward creation myth.
Granted. But I was going from the opinion that if Christians found it controversial, then explaining it to non-believers didn't make sense--as in, someone explaining a concept that they themselves have difficulty comprehending.
Yes I see where you're coming from. I was more responding to Stahrwe's statement that Genesis is controversial and difficult. I just don't see that at all and I've never heard that. Like I said it's very straightforward.
Quote:
1. In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth. 2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters. 3 And God said, Let there be light: and there was light. 4 And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness. 5 And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day. 6 And God said, Let there be a firmament in the midst of the waters, and let it divide the waters from the waters. etc.
This is actually beautiful in its simplicity and is very well written in that respect.
[quote]
_________________ -Geo Who Knows Only His Own Generation Remains Always a Child Cicero, Orator 120
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