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Nov. 2002 - Is the US the ultimate rogue nation? 
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Post Nov. 2002 - Is the US the ultimate rogue nation?
This thread is for discussing the Rationally Speaking article from November of 2002 entitled Is the US the ultimate rogue nation?

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N. 30, November 2002

Is the US the ultimate rogue nation?


As often when I begin a column that I think might be particularly offensive to some readers (apparently, some readers will find a way to be offended by almost anything I say each month, but I can do little about that), I will begin this one with a couple of disclaimers. You are about to read some disturbing things about the United States of America. This does not imply: a) that I don't appreciate the US as the only experiment in history of a country established on the rational principles of the Enlightenment; nor: b) that I have any sympathy whatsoever for tyrants and dictators, be they Saddam Hussein or Augusto Pinochet.

This said, let me make a case for the idea that the United States is, in fact, the ultimate "rogue" state and that it



Thu Feb 20, 2003 10:35 am
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Post Re: Is the US the ultimate rogue nation?
I'd say even the third choice is biased.

We've established and defended certain charters which give every sovereign nation the right to its own existence. The norm has been attack in retaliation, or in view of immediate threat.

We don't really have that right now. Our modern era is on the brink of devolving into the age of Empire, where a sovereign nation's existence is a right only insofar as nobody else wants to challenge it. The United States, historically the keeper of such covenants in the past century, is essentially about to embark upon a mission of conquest. A pre-emptive strike such as is suggested by our current administration, where there is no immediate threat visible, is little more than a sugar coating on colonialization. Invading a nation with no reason, deposing its ruler, this is all something we sought to stop ten or so years ago when Hussein did the same thing.

That Saddam Hussein is a horrible human can go unargued...but when he's kept his nose clean (seemingly) for the charges leveled against him...do we have the right to step in and destroy the very principles we've defended?

And if we do so, how much longer will the Republic stand? Will the administration stop with Iraq, or will it set a precedent? Can the Empire remain a Republic?




Thu Feb 20, 2003 1:10 pm
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Post Re: Is the US the ultimate rogue nation?
Perhaps a simpler dichotomy - will our actions be guided by the principles we claim to support or will they be guided by power, we'll just do it because we can?

I'm against this war - Iraq is a dangerous distraction from the war on Al Qaeda. However, it's ridiculous to claim the U.S. is "the ultimate rogue state". Notice the U.S. started out by talking about pre-emptive regime change. If we had acted on that, we would have behaved like Russia invading Afghanistan or Iraq and Kuwait - there was zero international debate, they just did it. But the U.S. backed off, got a U.N. resolution, and continues to attempt to build an international coalition. It's not going smoothly, but notice we're even going for a 2nd U.N. resolution - we'll see how that plays out. If we were "the ultimate rogue state", none of this diplomacy, coalition building, inspections, resolutions, or presentation of evidence would be going on - we would just friggin do it like a bad-assed rogue state should! Those that claim we're a terrorist or rogue nation are applying different standards to the U.S. and merely pointing out that we are not meeting the highest possible standards of international diplomacy - standards that no nation has ever met...




Fri Feb 21, 2003 8:18 am
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Post Re: Is the US the ultimate rogue nation?
To date we have attempted to use the "appropriate channels" to initiate war with Iraq: through petitioning support from the UN. However, it appears our administration may be planning to initiate this war without approval of the UN. If this happens I fear the consequences. In essence our administration is saying " we support the diplomatic process of the UN that, by the way, we were crucial in establishing as the way to handle world crises and maintain world peace, but we only support this process when it is to our favor." It's the "might is right" syndrome.

Unless we can make a case that Iraq is an IMMEDIATE threat I beleive we have no right to attack.




Fri Feb 21, 2003 2:28 pm
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Post Re: Is the US the ultimate rogue nation?
This article is deeply disturbing, and enligtening.

TARGET: IRAQ: Between Europe and America, a Great Divide That Goes Beyond Saddam




Fri Feb 21, 2003 10:58 pm
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