National Health Care.

Interbane · Tue Oct 26, 2010 3:20 pm


	Quote: We are not empty.....we are creative beings. We are definitely as rich as the things we can do without....

If only the majority of Americans could live by such a philosophy....

We can't change what we are. There will always be a large percentage of people who desire things which aren't needs; desire them so strongly that they believe they 'need' them. If there is any evolutionary imperative underlying much of our behavior, it's that we all desire a good mate. One of the best ways to acquire a good mate is by gaining wealth and power. It's a frustrating formula that is a carrot on a stick for an entire society(we know that many of our countrymen have managed to bite the carrot!). Those exempted are those blessed with natural beauty, but even those people are wired to 'continue' gaining status/wealth. Thankfully there are exceptions to most everything in evolutionary biology, and we're graced with people such as yourself who have the wisdom to enjoy life without the superfluous.

Penelope · Tue Oct 26, 2010 3:47 pm


	Quote: Interbane wrote: Thankfully there are exceptions to most everything in evolutionary biology, and we're graced with people such as yourself who have the wisdom to enjoy life without the superfluous.

Oh, spare my blushes do. I like the superfluous as much as the next man. I know how I should be......but I don't do it.

For instance, at the moment my OH has gutted the kitchen, so we are having all new units to replace the 1960's variety previously installed.....Am I pleased? No! I am miserable. I don't like the disruption. I hate it.....I even keep having a little cry! Ungrateful wretch me......

I just don't like the bloody disruption.....in fact, I don't want to evolve any further.....I'm too lazy. :angry:

etudiant · Wed Oct 27, 2010 12:31 am

Just to set the record straight, it wasn’t your colleague etudiant that wrote:

People are excited about this plan but think about all the money that has been spent for health care in this entire country when the most important thing the president should be working on is finding jobs for so many people who are unemployed and all the wars overseas.

In fact, I think the sad irony in these sentiments is that is the previous administration, and its associated right-wing lobbyists and pressure groups that have exacerbated these problems immensely. Poor old Obama is left with the task of sweeping up the floor and picking up the broken glass, and taking out the garbage. The republicans, having decided apparently that shame is not an option, are now arguing against extended unemployment benefits for the people that they have helped to put in that position.

Unemployment is high today because of ongoing policies that have favored the corporate world and the otherwise well placed, at the expense of the average American worker. Globalization and de-regulation have tended to move many well paying jobs offshore, and to cause other distortions in the economy. Too much economic activity has become focused on how to make a buck, rather than how to do something useful. These trends reached a fever pitch under the second Bush administration, before crashing to the ground under their own unsustainable weight.

There are some things that the president can do to “find jobs” for the unemployed, but at this stage of the game, it is going to take a massive shift to do so. This means creating and nurturing new industries that will be in demand in the future, and protecting worthwhile ones that still exist. More broadly, it will take an honest evaluation of just what citizens should be doing with their time, and how much that is worth in the 21st century. For one thing, there will not be enough meaningful jobs to go around in our highly productive system. This has been an issue for a while, and attempting to say it isn’t so is not a remedy.

Different approaches have been tried. The Soviets just gave everyone a broom and told them they were employed, but this was a bit of a sham. In the US, and other western countries, consumerism has arisen: if there are not meaningful jobs, then trivial ones can be created. If workers are not really needed in production or necessary services, give them a job in the mall selling nick-knacks.

But this solution is not really satisfactory either. For one thing, the planet is getting littered with the debris of nick-knacks and their by-products, to our detriment. It is also a very fragile system, as any economic crisis (crash of ’08) or political/military crisis (9/11) can stop people buying, and send the whole system into a tailspin.

Healthcare is yet another irony, because in fact an efficient, government run system would promote employment. Lowering costs, and removing the burden high premiums from employers would make them more competitive with their counterparts in other countries with such plans.

It will be interesting to see how, or if, Obama will rise above the clamor of self-interest and disinformation to do something to shore up the economy.

What did the Chinese say about living in “interesting times”?

Penelope · Wed Oct 27, 2010 5:15 am

Thank you etudiant for the brilliant summing up and I am sorry for attributing a post to you which was not yours.

A similar situation to what you describe exists now in the UK except in reverse, as it were. We have a new right-wing Government, blaming the last left-wing Government for the economic decline in our country. As if it were not a Worldwide recession, but something caused by our last Prime Minister, to inconvenience our little country.

They have just announced very stringent cuts to our Health Service and more so to our benefits system. Grants to hospitals and services being cut by up to 40% in some cases. It has to be said, that reform was needed and that the system was becoming more and more abused, with people claiming incapacity benefit fraudulently and etc. I can see that something had to be done but what I find irksome, is that the 'men at the top' the coalition Prime Ministers and their deputies are all extraordinarily wealthy public schoolboys and yet they keep saying 'We are all in this together', - this is the buzzword, repeated ad nauseum. We are patently NOT in it together when they have incomes of £4 million annually......I wish!

Ok, I can see the need for cuts in services and re-examination of the benefits system, which is bound to hit the most needy in society, however, I do object to being treated and spoken to as though I am stupid.

I don't believe there can be a really 'fair' sustainable society, but, we could at least attempt to protect the more vulnerable among us. Well, we do, here in this country, but that protection is being disassembled whilst are being fed buzzwords, and diverted from major injustices by attacks on individuals (celebrity culture) and media speak. People-pap - as George Orwell called it, in his very prophetic book - '1984'.

johnson1010 · Thu Oct 27, 2011 2:17 pm

Big pharma, and how it talks you into taking drugs.

http://io9.com/5853356/sick-of-pharmace ... nt-go-away

kelstan · Thu Oct 27, 2011 7:01 pm


	Quote: I just don't like the bloody disruption.....in fact, I don't want to evolve any further.....I'm too lazy.

I think that's a lovely sentiment - there come's a point in life where the new just isn't enough incentive to overcome the inconvenience.

Interbane · Thu Oct 27, 2011 9:44 pm

Penelope posted on Oct 27, 2010. Then the post sat idle for an exact year until Johnson posted on Oct 27, 2011. This is a synchronicity event and now I believe in god.

Penelope · Fri Oct 28, 2011 4:51 am


	Quote: Interbane: Penelope posted on Oct 27, 2010. Then the post sat idle for an exact year until Johnson posted on Oct 27, 2011. This is a synchronicity event and now I believe in god.

I often note that I seem to bring the 'kiss of death' to threads! I hope it is because the gentlemen can't bring themselves to be rude to an old woman.....and not because I am an excruciatingly boring poster.

It might be because it's autumnal and we are feeling reflective, but I love the syncronicity of the event. I note that you believe in god with a small g. I believe in Godess with a capital G.......so my God is better than your god and that's how it all began..... :cry:

realiz · Fri Oct 28, 2011 10:14 am


	Quote: Penelope posted on Oct 27, 2010. Then the post sat idle for an exact year until Johnson posted on Oct 27, 2011. This is a synchronicity event and now I believe in god

.

And this post is about National Health Care, so there must be a divine message in that.


	Quote: I often note that I seem to bring the 'kiss of death' to threads! I hope it is because the gentlemen can't bring themselves to be rude to an old woman.....and not because I am an excruciatingly boring poster.

Maybe you're just really good at getting in the 'last word'.

Penelope · Fri Oct 28, 2011 10:20 am


	Quote: realiz wrote: Maybe you're just really good at getting in the 'last word'.

I'll choose that option.

Penelope · Tue Apr 03, 2012 3:44 am

LOL:

Is this is an example of what Shakespeare dubbed - 'Making a virtue of a necessity'?

lindad_amato · Tue Apr 03, 2012 8:15 am


	Penelope wrote: LOL: Is this is an example of what Shakespeare dubbed - 'Making a virtue of a necessity'?

Whatever it is, Penelope, please don't stop posting. I love reading your posts.

Penelope · Mon Apr 23, 2012 11:38 am

Dear Robin Whatson:

By National Health Care, we are discussing the Government being in charge of our Health Service. Doctors' surgeries and hospital treatment for in-patients and out-patients.

We all pay a certain amount from our wages which goes towards the provision of free health care, (except that it isn't free because everyone contributes from wages). That means that wealthy people pay as well as poorer people, but we can all have the same health care available to us. It is Socialism, which is a very provocative word in the USA, but a very acceptable system in the UK, where I live.

This National Health care means that, for instance, if a child of a poor family has a serious illness, he/she would be automatically treated by the NHS just as readily as a child of a wealthy parent, which seems an admirable arrangement to me. Private Health care is available if people want to pay for that, but our NHS is really great.

DWill · Tue Apr 24, 2012 8:12 pm


	Penelope wrote: Dear Robin Whatson: By National Health Care, we are discussing the Government being in charge of our Health Service. Doctors' surgeries and hospital treatment for in-patients and out-patients. We all pay a certain amount from our wages which goes towards the provision of free health care, (except that it isn't free because everyone contributes from wages). That means that wealthy people pay as well as poorer people, but we can all have the same health care available to us. It is Socialism, which is a very provocative word in the USA, but a very acceptable system in the UK, where I live. This National Health care means that, for instance, if a child of a poor family has a serious illness, he/she would be automatically treated by the NHS just as readily as a child of a wealthy parent, which seems an admirable arrangement to me. Private Health care is available if people want to pay for that, but our NHS is really great.

Hi Penelope,
What are people in Britain making of our healthcare wars? Do they at all understand why an advanced nation would choose not to have any form of national health insurance (well, except Medicare, Medicaid, and the VA system--conveniently overlooked)? Do conservatives in Britain grumble and complain about the insurance available for sick (and well) people?

Penelope · Wed Apr 25, 2012 11:12 am

DWill, we are having our own NHS wars at present. Our current government promised to safeguard our health service as part of their manifesto before they took power but now that they are in parliament, they are making cuts to funding of our hospitals and closing care homes etc.

It is not just the poor or the labour voters who are complaining, but the doctors themselves are speaking out against the cuts. This is a broadcast by Doctor Robert Winston, a famous writer and broadcaster who, very bravely, spoke up against the Government cuts to our national health service:-

http://www.politics.co.uk/comment-analy ... t-winstoni

I have never heard anyone actually complain about paying towards NHS care, although many people also have private health cover with BUPA. So that if they need an operation, they can go private instead of waiting in line for surgery etc. My dentist stopped doing NHS treatment, and only has private patients now. I stayed with him. I do feel as though I am compromising my ideals, but I haven't got that many of my own teeth left anyway..... :lol:

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