Moron Alert: California Man Sees Virgin Mary In Wound

Penelope · Posted: Sun Jun 08, 2008 12:18 pm Post subject:

OK Mr. P..... it is all my fault....it usually is....

Did you know that I was responsible for World War II?

For some one who tries to be kind and look at things from other peoples' perspective.....I do seem to cause a lot of trouble.

Anyway....I am not going to argue with two of you.....because two to one isn't fair...... Doc

Mr. Pessimistic · Posted: Mon Jun 09, 2008 12:57 pm Post subject:

Chris OConnor · Posted: Mon Jun 09, 2008 1:09 pm Post subject:

I too was a believer long ago. It wasn't until my 15th year that I had the courage to actually say, "You know....I don't believe this stuff. I guess I am an atheist."

I remember the day and the moment and exactly where I was quite well. How liberating. I was proud. And the feelings of having done the right thing have increased tremendously over time. So much so that I will eventually be launching an international campaign to help educate the world about atheism and how it is a good choice and one to be proud of.

Penelope · Posted: Mon Jun 09, 2008 2:18 pm Post subject:

Well, I have also said that I don't believe the Bible and the whole Christian Myth.....but I just haven't felt the need to dump all spirituality into the bin wholesale.

Having said that, I was never force-fed religion as a child.....perhaps if I had, I would have had just as angry a reaction as you.

In fact, it is true....I would be very angry.....

I have seen some films about American Evangelicals and the way they browbeat their children into believing........it is quite shocking and looks to me like a form of abuse in many cases.

Mr. Pessimistic · Posted: Tue Jun 10, 2008 8:36 am Post subject:

Penelope · Posted: Tue Jun 10, 2008 10:52 am Post subject:

Dear Mr P and Chris....

Mr. Pessimistic · Posted: Tue Jun 10, 2008 12:13 pm Post subject:

Penelope · Posted: Tue Jun 10, 2008 12:39 pm Post subject:

Dear Mr. P

Because I am a human being......I am trying to see the question from 'both' sides...honestly I am......

I am corporal....I am earthly and of this world....but the trouble is...'I know'....that I am also a spiritual being.......

And it is easy to prove the 'corporal' part with science.......but impossible to prove the 'spiritual' part.......I would not wish to reject either part of me! So I can only 'accept' myself....and try to gain some sense of 'balance'.

But if I am aware of this spiritual side of me.....I am also aware of the spiritual side of you..........and I am so sorry if I make you feel exasperated.......

Chris OConnor · Posted: Tue Jun 10, 2008 5:51 pm Post subject:

Chris OConnor · Posted: Tue Jun 10, 2008 5:58 pm Post subject:

Penelope · Posted: Tue Jun 10, 2008 7:09 pm Post subject:

Thank you Chris...for taking the time to post all this.....it does matter to me....you are honest....and I appreciate that.....and I will read through it again tomorrow.

I am not being....ingratiating....(talking pretty) which is what I am reading between the lines of your post. Ingratiating Moi????

OK - My Mum was a Spiritualist Medium and talked to Ghosts....my Dad was a drunk and talked to Lamposts.

They both left me alone....to sort it out for myself. I was an only child....and, in fact my Mum and Dad were only married for a couple years....so I was actually just the result of a quick bonk.

Well, I went to Church..and I went to a Church of England School......so, yes...that will have had an affect on my thinking patterns....although very vague...because there is nothing very fundamental or radical about the Church of England, believe me.

I did read about Comparative Religions......and thought a lot over the years. I also read a lot about Marxism, Communism and Socialism......Because I lived with my Mum who was quite a 'Lefty'....she brought me up until I was 18 when I married. My Mum was always much more interested in Politics than religion.

So, Chris.....I suppose I was just born this way.

Chris OConnor · Posted: Tue Jun 10, 2008 7:14 pm Post subject:

DWill · Posted: Thu Jun 12, 2008 4:49 pm Post subject:

Following this discussion, and participating a little, has made me more aware of the truth of the old observation that discussion of religion
heightens divisions like nothing else (except possibly politics). I'm thankful that around Booktalk in general, discussions do not take on the tone of battle but are usually genuinely friendly, even when viewpoints are far apart. It may be true that I shy away from confrontation more than is called for, but I still have to think that darkening the dividing lines between us is the worst thing for us. I know that it might be said that to attack someone's beliefs is not to attack the person, but I don't believe it is really possible for us humans to do one without doing the other.

I know also that, Post-9/11, many think the ante has been jacked up around this subject of religion. It is no longer, the thinking goes, a matter of live and let live when it comes to belief in the supernatural, not when maniacs who believe they will be rewarded eternally for mass murder are preying on us. But doesn't that situation calls for a specific response against specific people, and not a blanket condemnation of any thought/belief one might judge to be "irrational"? There is not a monolithic quality to this matter of belief, faith, or whatever you want to call it, that justifies labeling all forms of it as a general threat to well-being. At the extreme, calls to stamp out forms of thought do bring to mind totalitarianism. Short of that extreme, calling out a person for the foolishness or irrationality of an idea seems to go against an ideal that we have at least attempted to implement, that of personal freedom of thought.

I am aware of the vituperation and discrimination that has long been directed towards people with no belief in a diety. So I admit that it can be hard for atheists to exercise tolerance when the same hasn't been extended to them.
DWill


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