Authors and publishers are welcome to tell us about their books ONLY if they are honest and reveal their relationship to the book and/or author. If you are here to promote a book you MUST state that you are the author, publisher or some other relation to the author or publisher or campaign to promote the book. Nothing short of complete disclosure will be tolerated.
All attempts to deceive BookTalk.org visitors and members with fake book reviews or endorsements make you, the author and the book appear unworthy of legitimate praise and will result in instant banning of all accounts, email addresses and IP addresses associated with the deception.
We take book suggestions, endorsement and reviews seriously on BookTalk.org and if you insult our intelligence with fake suggestions, endorsements and reviews we don't want you here and we won't consider your book as being worthy of our time. Efforts will be made to see that you and the book or books you're promoting are permanently banned from BookTalk.org.
If you would like to advertise your book click on the ADVERTISE link in the top green navigation bar and purchase and ad.
Joined: Apr 2008 Posts: 1453 Images: 0 Location: Hampton, Ga Highscores:14 Thanks: 188 Thanked: 245 times in 182 posts
Gender: Country:
Michel De Montaigne - Essays
I started this thread because I thought someone else was going to do it anyway. The version I have is produced by Penguin Classics and many of Montaigne's essays have been left out. I'm going to try and make this a daily thing - or as close to it as I possibly can.
Entry #1, Book 1, Chapter 7
That Our Actions Should be Judged by Our Intentions
"Death, it is said , releases us from all our obligations."
"We cannot be held responsible beyond our strength and means, since the resulting events are quite outside our control and, in fact, we have power over nothing except our will; which is the basis upon which all rules concerning man's duty must of necessity be founded."
Agreed.
Montaigne makes some great points when discussing the issue of death relieving obligations. He points out that just because a person is dying does not necessarily relieve that person of an oath they took in life. Such as when King Henry, while dying, ordered the death of the Duke of Suffolk after he (King Henry) had passed - thereby attempting to circumvent his obligation not to kill the Duke of Suffolk.
Montaigne also brings up the instance of previous wrongs corrected by those on their death beds. Such as when someone who has taken property from another decides to return that property by leaving it to them in a will.
"No attempt to redeem an injury at so small a cost and sacrifice to themselves will be of any avail. They owe something of what is really their own. And the more distressing and inconvenient the payment, the more just and meritorious is the restitution. Penitence must be felt as a weight."
By giving away something which was not theirs while in the process of dying relieves that person of the weight of guilt. The person whose possession was stolen has again been robbed. Nothing of themselves was given and the distress has been lifted. They have been used twice and now the criminal is deceased and no action can be taken against them.
I think this has a lot to do with identifying when wrongs are made right. When those who have wronged others have paid something of themselves and that payment is in relative equality to the weight which has been felt by the wronged.
Hypothetically speaking, if a person only makes 1,000,000 in a lifetime, and a person deliberately and maliciously causes 5,000 people to lose over 1,000,000 collectively, then that person should be expected to return the 1,000,000 and then be tried for the murder of at least 1 person.
Joined: Apr 2008 Posts: 2638 Images: 5 Location: Round Hill, VA
Thanks: 270 Thanked: 215 times in 172 posts
Gender: Country:
Thank you, President Camacho! I am so glad you got this tread going. I will look forward to my daily dose of Montaigne.
_________________ " How we eat determines, to a considerable extent, how the world is used." - Wendell Berry, What Are People For?
“People usually consider walking on water or in thin air a miracle. But I think the real miracle is not to walk either on water or in thin air, but to walk on earth. Every day we are engaged in a miracle which we don’t even recognize: a blue sky, white clouds, green leaves, the black, curious eyes of a child — our own two eyes. All is a miracle.” -Thich Nhat Hahn
Joined: Apr 2008 Posts: 1453 Images: 0 Location: Hampton, Ga Highscores:14 Thanks: 188 Thanked: 245 times in 182 posts
Gender: Country:
Entry #2, Book 1, Chapter 8
On Idleness
"As we see ground that lies fallow, teeming, if rich and fertile, with countless kinds of wild and useless plants, and observe that, to keep it serviceable, we must master it and sow it with various crops of use to ourselves; and as we see that women, of themselves, sometimes bring forth inanimate and shapeless lumps of flesh, but to produce a sound and natural birth must be fertilized with different seed, so it is with our minds. If we do not occupy them with some definite subject which curbs and restrains them, they rush wildly to and fro in the ill-defined field of imagination, and there is no folly or fantasy that they will not produce in this restless state."
This excerpt shows that Montaigne is concerned with and has a dim view of idleness. It was a "mind is a terrible thing to waste" feel to it. I had a hard time getting passed "inanimate lumps of flesh" because I kept thinking about still-births. Then, I reread and thought that maybe he was referring to something else. Montaigne has a good habit of saying what he means, even though it could possible cause him some very small degree of not unwanted embarrassment.
Maybe this was why he began to write these essays. Maybe the old man was bored. He brings up his mortality in this chapter "of the little time i have left to live" and also that he wishes to record his odd and absurd chimeras and imaginary monsters.
In retirement it seems that leisure has made his mind a runaway horse and that it is "more active on its own behalf than ever it was for others."
It must be kept in mind that Montaigne is a wealthy man. Montaigne is an overweight, lazy, wealthy man. I want to add vain. I really do. I think fatty sat down and wanted to write something and this is all that came up because he did absolutely nothing that week.
Anyway, back to the shapeless lump of flesh thing. Shapeless lump of flesh. What could he mean? He moves from a fertile field full of useless plants because lack of a master - and then he moves on immediately to women. There's not even a period before the two thoughts. It just goes.
"women, of themselves, sometimes bring forth inanimate and shapeless lumps of flesh, but to produce a sound and natural birth must be fertilized with different seed, so it is with our minds."
WHAT?
Ok, women can't give birth without a "seed"
is he talking about inbreeding? Possibly?
He could be saying that women can't give birth without being seeded by a man - but why then the "inanimate, shapeless lumps of flesh"
And this is for anyone else that didn't know what a chimera is:
In Greek mythology, the Chimera (Greek Χίμαιρα (Chimaira); Latin Chimaera) was a monstrous creature of Lycia in Asia Minor, composed of the parts of multiple animals. The Chimera was one of the offspring of Typhon and Echidna and a sibling of such monsters as Cerberus and the Lernaean Hydra.
_________________ " How we eat determines, to a considerable extent, how the world is used." - Wendell Berry, What Are People For?
“People usually consider walking on water or in thin air a miracle. But I think the real miracle is not to walk either on water or in thin air, but to walk on earth. Every day we are engaged in a miracle which we don’t even recognize: a blue sky, white clouds, green leaves, the black, curious eyes of a child — our own two eyes. All is a miracle.” -Thich Nhat Hahn
Last edited by Saffron on Fri Nov 07, 2008 7:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Joined: Apr 2008 Posts: 2638 Images: 5 Location: Round Hill, VA
Thanks: 270 Thanked: 215 times in 172 posts
Gender: Country:
President Camacho wrote:
Entry #2, Book 1, Chapter 8 On Idleness "women, of themselves, sometimes bring forth inanimate and shapeless lumps of flesh, but to produce a sound and natural birth must be fertilized with different seed, so it is with our minds."
WHAT?
He could be saying that women can't give birth without being seeded by a man - but why then the "inanimate, shapeless lumps of flesh"
craziness
I'm lost here too!
From my reading of this essay, Montaigne's main point is the mind in it's natural state is wild, jumping willy-nilly all over the place. With mastery it can be focused and useful.
_________________ " How we eat determines, to a considerable extent, how the world is used." - Wendell Berry, What Are People For?
“People usually consider walking on water or in thin air a miracle. But I think the real miracle is not to walk either on water or in thin air, but to walk on earth. Every day we are engaged in a miracle which we don’t even recognize: a blue sky, white clouds, green leaves, the black, curious eyes of a child — our own two eyes. All is a miracle.” -Thich Nhat Hahn
Joined: Apr 2008 Posts: 2638 Images: 5 Location: Round Hill, VA
Thanks: 270 Thanked: 215 times in 172 posts
Gender: Country:
President Camacho wrote:
I don't know if it's mastery or just having something to keep it occupied. Left to itself it runs amok.
Well, maybe not mastery -- but what about the seeds -- I think he was saying the mind needed to be focused, trained.
_________________ " How we eat determines, to a considerable extent, how the world is used." - Wendell Berry, What Are People For?
“People usually consider walking on water or in thin air a miracle. But I think the real miracle is not to walk either on water or in thin air, but to walk on earth. Every day we are engaged in a miracle which we don’t even recognize: a blue sky, white clouds, green leaves, the black, curious eyes of a child — our own two eyes. All is a miracle.” -Thich Nhat Hahn
Joined: Apr 2008 Posts: 2638 Images: 5 Location: Round Hill, VA
Thanks: 270 Thanked: 215 times in 172 posts
Gender: Country:
Hey, I have an idea!
How about you post an essay and a few comments and (here's the good part) you set a date and time for a chat to discuss the essay. If you are going to try to post every day it wouldn't work to chat about every essay, but maybe once a week. What do you think?
_________________ " How we eat determines, to a considerable extent, how the world is used." - Wendell Berry, What Are People For?
“People usually consider walking on water or in thin air a miracle. But I think the real miracle is not to walk either on water or in thin air, but to walk on earth. Every day we are engaged in a miracle which we don’t even recognize: a blue sky, white clouds, green leaves, the black, curious eyes of a child — our own two eyes. All is a miracle.” -Thich Nhat Hahn
Joined: Apr 2008 Posts: 2638 Images: 5 Location: Round Hill, VA
Thanks: 270 Thanked: 215 times in 172 posts
Gender: Country:
President C wrote:
Quote:
"inanimate lumps of flesh" because I kept thinking about still-births.
Yes, it must be still birth that Montaigne is referring. I suppose possibly out of ignorance he believed that still birth was the result of an unfertilized egg.
_________________ " How we eat determines, to a considerable extent, how the world is used." - Wendell Berry, What Are People For?
“People usually consider walking on water or in thin air a miracle. But I think the real miracle is not to walk either on water or in thin air, but to walk on earth. Every day we are engaged in a miracle which we don’t even recognize: a blue sky, white clouds, green leaves, the black, curious eyes of a child — our own two eyes. All is a miracle.” -Thich Nhat Hahn
Last edited by Saffron on Fri Nov 07, 2008 8:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Joined: Jan 2008 Posts: 3893 Location: Berryville, Virginia
Thanks: 689 Thanked: 562 times in 454 posts
Gender: Country:
President Camacho wrote:
I had a hard time getting passed "inanimate lumps of flesh" because I kept thinking about still-births. Then, I reread and thought that maybe he was referring to something else.
My edition goes, "as we see women, quite alone, bringing forth shapeless lumps of flesh." Could it be that Montaigne, who tended to accept some "folk wisdom" uncritically, thought that women who hadn't even had sex could produce...something? I guess maybe not, since he says they do okay with a "different seed." He believed that a "quality" seed would solve the problem, I guess. I'm glad Pres. C. did us the favor of picking two shorties. Some of these esays are l---o---n----g. I once read (or think I may have finished it, not sure) "The Apology for Raimond Sebond." That one goes on for 150 pages! That is NOT an essay, Michel, and I don't care if you say you invented the form.
I like the line, "He dwells just nowhere that dwells everywhere." I find my experience to be somewhat like his, too, in that I think that I'll do all sorts of focused and constructive things with my free time, yet end up piddling around, usually, or going on bike rides.
A note in my book says that shortly after "retiring" and writing this little essay, Montaigne was pressed into service, "rather against his will," as Mayor of Bordeaux for four years; "which office he held...with great credit, during very troublous times."
Joined: Nov 2007 Posts: 1550 Location: France
Thanks: 0 Thanked: 32 times in 32 posts
Gender: Country:
I remember Montaigne from my senior year in high school. I don't remember much about the content of the essays, I preferred the texts that were more poetical or the novels in the French lit class, but I remember that I liked the style, the quaint sixteenth century language, and the idea that he had written all this in his library in his castle. This is what has stuck with me.
So, I really recommend having a look at the following site which shows portraits of Montaigne and beautiful photos of his castle.
I'm afraid two of the links I've given don't seem to work, those of you who are interested will have to google it.
If you click on "Visite du site touristique" and then on the little camera with "Visite de la Tour en photos", you'll get a panoramic view of the library in the tower where Montaigne wrote his Essays: I find this really fascinating.
The other thing I remember is the language of the Essays, which is very attractive, in an "old French" way. I've just read a page from the original version on the web, and found it rather difficult. The spelling is so changed that it makes it difficult to concentrate on what is being said. I wonder whether we had a version with modern spelling at school. That would still leave a lot that was specific of the time and of the author's use of sixteenth century French-- which was delightful. It was a language that was much more colourful than modern French.
Right, now as I'm sure BT has been eagerly looking forward to this, here goes:
I'm afraid two of the links I've given don't seem to work, those of you who are interested will have to google it.
If you click on "Visite du site touristique" and then on the little camera with "Visite de la Tour en photos", you'll get a panoramic view of the library in the tower where Montaigne wrote his Essays: I find this really fascinating.
At least on this side of the Atlantic Ophelia's instructions on how to get to the site with photos of Montaigne's castle do not work. I am going to try posting the link for how I got to it. Cross your figures that it works!
Fingers still crossed - this is the link to the panoramic view:
panoramic view
_________________ " How we eat determines, to a considerable extent, how the world is used." - Wendell Berry, What Are People For?
“People usually consider walking on water or in thin air a miracle. But I think the real miracle is not to walk either on water or in thin air, but to walk on earth. Every day we are engaged in a miracle which we don’t even recognize: a blue sky, white clouds, green leaves, the black, curious eyes of a child — our own two eyes. All is a miracle.” -Thich Nhat Hahn
Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests
You cannot post new topics in this forum You cannot reply to topics in this forum You cannot edit your posts in this forum You cannot delete your posts in this forum You cannot post attachments in this forum
Love to talk about books but don't have time for our book discussion forums? For casual book talk join us on Facebook.
Support BookTalk.org
BookTalk.org is being upgraded to a totally new design. This upgrade is expensive. Any support would be VERY helpful! See who supports us.
Make a donation
PEOPLE PAYING FOR OUR UPGRADE:
• afv - $10 May
• LevV - $50 March
• Dexter - $10 March
• supernova38 - $25 March
• Oblivion - $20 March
• jheimlich - $20 February
• Robert Tulip - $50 February
• giselle - $50 January
Children here need worming
regularly, and I think I
need to buy more worming
tablets, so while my friends
sit on the beach, I have to
catch bush taxis up to the… more
The children have a long way
to walk to the nearest primary
school. At the moment they are
in temporary accommodation,
with volunteer teachers. There
is community land available,
a… more
The price of The 12th Disciple
has been updated to $3.99 for
Kindle readers. The book is
still available for free to
borrow for Amazon Prime
members. To be
competitive, and s… more
The 12th Disciple has been
reviewed by two different
people on Amazon. They
purchased the Kindle edition;
one in the US, one in the
UK. One review was
5-stars (US) and the oth… more
I'd like to say I've
been reading Harry Potter
since the day the world renown
series appeared on the
scene. Unfortunately,
the truth is I began reading
Harry Potter… more
Easter teaches many of us the
importance of redemption and
resurrection. Regardless of
what faith people follow, the
story of Jesus Christ has been
told in many languages in many
c… more
Our Book Talk will begin on
Wednesday, May 2nd. I look
forward to hearing about your
learning and classroom
experiences with Number Talks
as it all unfolds...
NONOPPOSITIONAL NONVIOLENCE
The minute you conquer the
fear of death, at that moment
you are free. I submit to you
that if a man hasnt
discovered something that he
will die f… more
Yesterday, when I went to feed
Jeni the donkey, I noticed
swarms of bees entering
Ebrimas house through the
cracks in the door. We both
had a look, but he didnt
open his door… more
Whether you want to implement
number talks but are unsure of
how to begin or have
experience but want more
guidance in crafting
purposeful problems, this
dynamic multimedia resourc… more
Do you feel entitled? For
years I have listened to and,
in some instances, complained
that some people in America
feel entitled. For years I
have watched as these people
are portra… more
On Fat Tuesday and Ash
Wednesday of 2012, The 12th
Disciple was free to Kindle
users on both days. In all,
about 550 worldwide Kindle
users downloaded a copy of the
book.
Sacred Are the Brave a
collection of short stories
about the nonviolent
revolutions 1986-1989 is now
available in Kindle. Each of
the nine stories has
characters who are just
… more
The Weekend Trippers is the
true story of Rfn Ted Taylor
and his part in the heroic
last stand in Calais May 1940.
The Weekend Trippers is based
on Teds diaries written at
the… more
Tell your friends when to meet you in the BookTalk.org Chat Room.
If you enjoy business bestsellers and would like to expand your business knowledge check out the quality book summaries offered by the world's leading book summary company.
BookTalk.org is a free book discussion group or online reading group or book club. We read and talk about both fiction and non-fiction books as a group. We host live author chats where booktalk members can interact with and interview authors. We give away free books to our members in book giveaway contests. Our booktalks are open to everybody who enjoys talking about books. Our book forums include book reviews, author interviews and book resources for readers and book lovers. Discussing books is our passion. We're a literature forum, or reading forum. Register a free book club account today! Suggest nonfiction and fiction books. Authors and publishers are welcome to advertise their books or ask for an author chat or author interview.
Tweet This Topic
