This thread is for the discussion of Massimo's May 2003 article entitled On "being proud of."Quote:N. 36, May 2003On "being proud of"Lately I have been thinking about the meaning of "being proud of." It is hard to drive on a highway or walk down a street and not see a billboard or a bumper sticker that says "Proud to be American" or some variant thereof. So I started to wonder what do we mean when we utter or write such a phrase? To begin with, this isn't something that people do just for the fun of it. Few are patriotic enough to spell out their pride unless they mean it as a message addressing a particular situation. That particular situation, of course, has recently been provided first by the 9/11 attacks, and now by the war on Iraq and the controversy that it has generated, both nationally and -- more dramatically -- internationally.Even so, I suppose there is no logical contradiction in, say, being proud of being an American and yet oppose preemptive wars because they violate international law. Indeed, many antiwar protesters have made it a point of displaying their patriotism with flags and slogans to reinforce the idea that they don't think of themselves as "anti-American," but simply anti-Bush foreign policy. So one can be proud of being an American for many different, sometimes blatantly contradictory reasons.But more generally, and I don't mean to offend anybody by asking this question, whenever I see the slogan "Proud to be American" I want to stop the person and ask a simple question: why? Or, more precisely, "what do you mean by that?" Surely there are exceedingly good things that the nation known as the United States of America has done during the course of its history. To name but a few, it created the first modern democratic state based on the principles of the European Enlightenment, it has successfully fought off Adolf Hitler, and has sent a human being on the Moon. Surely these are things to be mighty proud of.Then again, that very same United States of America has done other things one would more likely be ashamed of, including exterminating entire indigenous populations in the process of building the new nation, engaging in racist policies that have been abandoned only gradually and painfully, and holding the record for being the only nation ever to use a weapon of mass destruction. Should we as individuals be proud (or ashamed) of these things? Well, we certainly didn't do them (though we may be taking advantage of some of the outcomes). Let us remember that it is by a simple accident of birth that one is American as opposed to French, or Iraqi. And that most of us don't actually participate in our nation's civil life enough to claim any right to brag or be sorry about what that nation does during our lifetime (let alone what it did before we lived). From that perspective, being proud of being an American, French, or Iraqi is downright silly. It would be like being proud of supporting a particular baseball team just because one happens to live in a particular town (oh, right, people do that!).And yet, I understand the feeling that brings people to cheer for a sports team or a nation. Heck, I religiously watch the soccer world cup, proudly recounting the past and present feats of the Italian team, even though I have made absolutely no contribution to it. Furthermore, despite the fact that I profoundly dislike any form of nationalism from a rational perspective, I have to admit that I feel at home when I enter a restaurant that serves good Chianti and pasta al dente. Indeed, I caught myself even at being somewhat boastful of the remote history of my country, from the absolute geographical and cultural dominance of the Roman Empire (take that, George Bush!) to the masterpieces of Renaissance artists! But, believe me, in my sober moments I realize that the Roman Empire wasn't exactly a political machinery to be proud of, and that Michelangelo did the Sistine Chapel completely independently of any help from me whatsoever.What, then, does it mean to be "proud of" being associated with an abstract entity such as a team or a nation? I suppose it is a reflection of the deep need for a sense of belonging that we all have, mixed with whatever imprinting we got from the surrounding environment when we were growing up. There is nothing wrong with that: it is fun to watch sports events with some sort of emotional involvement (not just as "spectators"), and it is even good to feel some degree of cohesion with the society with live in. What is not good is to forget to at least occasionally step outside of our feelings and take a look at the question from a more neutral ground. Then it shouldn't be difficult to realize that other people have just as much right to feel "proud of" being something else as we do, and that we are therefore not entitled to trample all over them with a condescending smile on our face. Is that too much to ask? Edited by: Chris OConnor  at: 7/19/03 3:10 pm

In the ultra-polar world of Bush, when you're either with us or against us, I kinda think that lines between patriotism and nationalism lose their distinction. Patriotism, which is love of one's country and willingness to sacrifice for it, does not imply the sort of exclusive loyaltry that nationalism does. Patriotism doesn't demand that you discriminate on the basis of citizenship. It is a pride in one's identity rather than rather than a pride in the merit of one's identity, pluralistic through and through. Yet the political rhetoric of the Bush administration precludes this distinction, and has in effect, if not explicity, laid the foundation for a definition of patriotism which entails a loyalty to the political agenda of the present administration.The result in the population has been a confused but obstinate expression of national identity. We ARE Americans, and we are PROUD that we are, even though we can't really articulate what gives rise to these emotions. But is it really all that important? My eyes tear up when I hear the National Anthem being sung...unless its sung badly...then I throw a beer bottle. Doesn't that count for something? Of course it does, because America is GREAT, and I'd be a damn fool not to give my full endorsement.[Just to clarify, the above paragraph is fiction, meant to illustrate the unthinking processes of justification in national pride. As I see it, it is little more than a emotional flatery...proud to be american is essentially a narcissistic commendation of american values. In other words, the proud label is just a HUGELY myopic self-endorsement, that only a nation caught in the grip of narcissistism could make.]I really think that too many Americans are unable to shed their ethnocentric views enough to see that Greatness is as Greatness does. It is not inherited, but created anew each day in the course of human events. No patriot is loyal to the powers that be if in loyalty they betray the welfare of humanity in general. Edited by: Timothy Schoonover at: 4/25/03 4:20:22 pm

Funny Massimo should write on this subject this month. I was just in a conversation about this recently and I have mixed feelings. I've never understood being proud of anything you aren't responsible for doing yourself.Graduate from college and you have something to feel proud about. Pass a tough exam that you studied intensely for and I understand some pride. Run into a burning building and save your hampster from being burned alive...again I feel pride is justified.But proud to be an American? Proud to be gay? Proud to be black? Huh?Then again...like Tim said...Quote:My eyes tear up when I hear the National Anthem being sung...Me too. I just experienced this on the dinner cruise with Richard Dawkins. Here we were - a large group of atheists and the singer from the band that was playing stopped the music and said they were about to do something for our men and women in the service who are over in Iraq sacrificing for us. We all thought he was going to ask us to bow our heads for a moment of silence.Well, he stepped back and this black girl stepped up and sang our national anthem so well I had goose bumps. We all were totally silent. It was beautiful...totally beautiful. So what were we feeling? Was it pride? Pride is what? Someone needs to do a study on this. I guess I'm proud at what our country stands for. This doesn't mean I agree with our foreign policy or with the current administration. But I believe in our Constitution. I love the concept of freedom and I don't think any other nation on this planet has ever experienced a greater level of personal freedom than what we do here in the United States. So yes...I'm proud...or feel honored or blessed to be an American.I'll have to explore this further. Chris

I'm proud to be an American on the grounds that I have used my freedoms to oppose what I see as wrong and to support what I see as right. I look at the worst things this nation has done and am proud that as a people, we rejected the worst of them and will no longer accept evils we once took for granted.Pride based on past accomplishments goes nowhere. Part of the reason the middle east is such a quagmire is that people are still fighting wars from the thirteenth century. Do what is good and right - encourage your nation to do what is good and right - celebrate doing good and right.

Quote:Do what is good and right - encourage your nation to do what is good and right - celebrate doing good and right.I heartily affirm your stance Jeremy, but it seems like the public's access to what is good and right is commonly manipulated by the government's own agenda. Right and wrong--morality--is such a slippery slope when national interests are at stake and religious dogma only further obscures honest evaluation.

Thank you, and a big "amen" on religous dogma. Of all the things GWB does, his attempt to religionize our society and debates upsets me the most.

I wonder how much of his religious conviction is sincere and how much is just a political device?

There are a few functions of pride. The good function is that it can motivate you (or at least some people) to maintain a high standard of performance, or to surpass yourself. On the other hand, it can become a status thing, where a group of people with superior achievement (or position, however they got there) rest on their mutual admiration and pride until they find out they've fallen behind others who wasted less time slapping themselves on the back. Critics are dismissed automatically as a reflex. One's opinion of himself depends on the group, and the group must never change, and therefore must idolize stories of the "glory days" of the group. All new achievements pale because they cannot match what the group was at its energy peak. So the individual cuts corners, becomes lazy, forgets to evolve, and then retreats into the group to feel superior to the masses. I believe one of the reason "ivory tower intellectuals" get so much of the blame is because many groups have an ivory tower, not just intellectuals but any group that feels it is closer to the truth (and view truth as an authoritative master which punishes our enemies, rather than a process) than everybody else.Which form of pride America follows will determine a lot of people's futures.Michael