Light vs Heavy Non-Fiction - How do we offer both?

Chris OConnor · Tue Dec 06, 2011 10:41 am

I think we can all agree that there is a significant difference in the following two non-fiction books:

1. ALONE: Orphaned on the Ocean

2. The Moral Landscape: How Science Can Determine Human Values

Both books are non-fiction yet one tends to be lighter reading while the other is more academic.

I think the time has come for us to differentiate between light non-fiction and heavy non-fiction for the purpose of selecting good books to read and discuss as a group.

Think about this for a moment. I did some keyword research recently and I learned that the word "fiction" is searched for in Google literally 10x as much as "non-fiction." So to start this discussion we have to face the reality that non-fiction already attracts a significantly smaller audience than fiction. Agreed? I'm not asking you to agree based on the 90/10 statistic I just threw at you. I think we all already know most people read fiction.

So our non-fiction discussions are already off to a rocky start with 90% of the book lovers landing on BookTalk.org not being interested in non-fiction books. Of the 10% that are interested we have to then consider what percentage enjoy heavier reading like "The Moral Landscape" or science, philosophy, history, etc. I would venture to say that of the 10% of readers that read non-fiction far less than 1/2 would ever consider picking up one of our "heavier" or more academic non-fiction books.

Now for the hard part.

How do we continue to offer heavy non-fiction for those of us that prefer that sort of reading while concurrently offering some lighter non-fiction reading for those that don't want their brain to explode while reading?

I think most of us that enjoy and prefer heavier non-fiction reading to lighter non-fiction reading can at least agree with the what I have just said.

1. Most people read fiction so most visitors to BookTalk.org are not here for non-fiction.
2. Most non-fiction readers prefer lighter non-fiction than we typically offer and therefore are being scared away.

I have no desire to rid BookTalk.org of heavy, academic or intellectual non-fiction books. But we need to figure out a way to lighten up a portion of our non-fiction books so the general population of non-fiction lovers can participate. As a few members have recently said not everyone has a background in philosophy or science or history. Entering some of our discussions is scary as hell.

And for the most part we're a hyper-critical group. For heavy non-fiction this is a good thing. Applying critical thinking to what we read and discuss is vital and what differentiates BookTalk.org from Oprah's Book Club and other reading groups. But for people that wan to read serious non-fiction yet not feel they are in a college classroom we're scaring them to death. And as a result of this intimidation factor we've got only a handful of committed non-fiction participants. Lately we cannot get a half dozen people to all say something positive about one single book so we can pick our next non-fiction book. We just don't have the numbers.

So we need to offer a lighter and less intimidating section of non-fiction. Again, this will run side-by-side with our traditional deeper non-fiction reads.

The problem is in how we define, articulate and announce this new concept. Already, in this post of mine, I guarantee you several people have felt insulted. How do you tell someone that the non-fiction books you like to read are lighter, less academic, not as intellectually stimulating, easier to understand, etc...?

We need to figure out a brief way to label these two groups of non-fiction so that we can easily communicate to current and potential members what sorts of books fit in each category. When someone wants to suggest a book on neurology or the psychology of belief we need a right place and a wrong place for such a suggestion. Likewise, when someone wants to suggest Elie Wiesel's "Night," a totally different type of non-fiction book, we need to make it clear where that book belongs.

For the purpose of this discussion I started out calling this "Light Non-Fiction" vs. "Heavy Non-Fiction." Finding the appropriate way to label lighter non-fiction without being condescending or insulting is the challenge. And this is where you come in. Can you think of ideas for how we can articulate the differences between these two types of non-fiction books?

geo · Tue Dec 06, 2011 11:39 am

We could have a couple of non-fiction selections going at the same time. The problem, as always, is we don't have enough participants. It's ironic that BookTalk is becoming more popular as time goes on, but we have a difficult time getting readers to discuss a book. I know several folks who come here a lot but they don't usually participate in book discussions.

Dexter · Tue Dec 06, 2011 12:32 pm

Completely agree with your points, Chris. Don't have a good solution.

I'm into the "heavy" stuff, I even read textbooks for fun, but clearly the numbers aren't there for even the semi-academic books most of the time.

I don't see why anyone should be insulted by what you said. I can't think of better labels, maybe listing some genres -- best sellers, biography, true stories, ...?

Chris OConnor · Tue Dec 06, 2011 12:44 pm

So you guys think calling it "Heavy" and "Light" is not going to upset the people that gravitate towards the lighter stuff?

You guys are going to love what we are doing to upgrade the site. We are going to grow exponentially once this goes live.

geo · Tue Dec 06, 2011 1:56 pm


	Chris OConnor wrote: So you guys think calling it "Heavy" and "Light" is not going to upset the people that gravitate towards the lighter stuff? You guys are going to love what we are doing to upgrade the site. We are going to grow exponentially once this goes live.

I don't think "Light" is insulting. I would say that Todd Riniolo's book we discussed some time back could be called "Light". Those 600-page tomes are not for everyone.

As for upgrading the site, has this been discussed elsewhere? What's going to happen?

R. LeBeaux · Tue Dec 06, 2011 5:45 pm

I agree with you, Chris, on just about everything you have said and plan. I am one of those members who does not participate in the non-fiction book discussions for several reasons, not the least being that I have spent a lifetime debating philosophy, politics, religion, and science topics, and, for the most part, all the points have been made over and over and over again. This is not to say that some writers don’t offer new twists on old theories, or that many BookTalk members don’t make good points when discussing these subjects. However, for me (and, from what you have observed, many others), these books and discussions would require a great deal of deep thought and consideration in order to come up with original and interesting comments, and frankly, I just don’t have the time or desire to do so.

I’ve mentioned this elsewhere, but I sort of expected to see a lot more discussion on subjects and/or books that pertain to the writing process, the writing life, authors, editors, publishing, etc. Interbane and I started a few of these discussions, however, they didn’t go very far, so perhaps I am in the minority here. Still, I have noticed that there are many newbies who seem to join looking for this kind of thing (beginning writers, authors looking for help, readers curious about how writers work, etc.), so perhaps a little more emphasis on these areas would generate some interest.

As for terminology, “light” and “heavy” seem to be okay, and I don’t see them as insulting. About the only other alternative would be to create several more specific categories (Philosophy and Religion, Science and Discovery, Biographies, The Writing Process, Humor, etc.), but that could get pretty complicated.

Another thought I had came from your recent request for contest ideas, and that is to offer book prizes for those who make suggestions for books that eventually win the most votes and become selections for discussion, and also for those who volunteer to moderate book discussions.

No matter how this is handled, I think it would be helpful to prominently promote the book discussions on the home page, not only with text in the center column, but with in-house display ads as well. I know there are financial considerations when it comes to ad placement, however, you might look at spots like the one taken up by the ad for the “Chat” feature. In all the time since I joined BookTalk, I have never once seen anyone participating in the chat, so I’m thinking that ad space could be better used to promote book discussions.

One last idea: perhaps you could consider splitting the rolling “Recent Posts” into two boxes; one specifically for book discussions, and the other for general topics. I do like this feature, but there are times when a book discussion dominates the topics; and other times when several particularly lively topics push book discussion posts to the sidelines. If you want to emphasize book discussions, then I think it would be perfectly acceptable to have two “Recent Posts” categories, perhaps shrinking the size of the boxes so as not to have them take up a lot more room.

wilde · Tue Dec 06, 2011 10:04 pm

I personally don't have a problem with the phrases "heavy" & "light" but I can see how they might be thought of as condescending. But then again, there is "light" fiction & "heavy" fiction as well. (For example, something like Moby-Dick would be heavy, whereas something like "Odd Thomas" would be light) The issue with me would be differentiating between what is "heavy" and what is "light."

Something that is longer & uses a lot of technical language would be heavy, of course, and memoirs might be considered light... but I'm not sure where books on history or biographies would go.

kelstan · Tue Dec 06, 2011 11:34 pm

Chris, most of us who would be participating in the "light" reading group would not give enough thought to the the term "light" to be insulted. That's why we would be in the "light" group!

Chris OConnor · Wed Dec 07, 2011 1:13 am

I am going to create a private forum and invite you guys to it tonight. I don't want to discuss these upgrades here in the open.

You'll be invited to a forum called "BookTalk.org Upgrades" or something similar soon.

Damifino · Wed Dec 07, 2011 8:24 am


	Chris OConnor wrote: So you guys think calling it "Heavy" and "Light" is not going to upset the people that gravitate towards the lighter stuff?

Doesn't hurt my feelings any.

LevV · Wed Dec 07, 2011 1:45 pm

Chris, I don't think people will be upset with the creation of two groups if they are defined properly. I see the "light" group forum being chosen over the "heavy" for reasons other than ability or weak academic knowledge. The "light" group may be chosen by people who want to participate in a discussion but don't have the time or don't want to take the time it takes to organize and present well reasoned responses to a challenging topic. Or, like LeBeaux stated above, the "heavy" topic may be one that he feels he has exhausted and might choose "BT light" simply because it holds greater interest!
Another benefit to having the light and heavy groups may be participants moving into the heavy group after gaining confidence in the light group.
In any case, thanks for doing this.

wilde · Wed Dec 07, 2011 3:25 pm


	LevV wrote: Chris, I don't think people will be upset with the creation of two groups if they are defined properly. I see the "light" group forum being chosen over the "heavy" for reasons other than ability or weak academic knowledge. The "light" group may be chosen by people who want to participate in a discussion but don't have the time or don't want to take the time it takes to organize and present well reasoned responses to a challenging topic. Or, like LeBeaux stated above, the "heavy" topic may be one that he feels he has exhausted and might choose "BT light" simply because it holds greater interest! Another benefit to having the light and heavy groups may be participants moving into the heavy group after gaining confidence in the light group. In any case, thanks for doing this.

I definitely agree with this. I'm in college, so as you can imagine, sometimes I just don't want to read something heavy in my free time. :lol:

Chris OConnor · Wed Dec 07, 2011 3:40 pm

Personally, I would probably participate more in a light non-fiction discussion than a heavier non-fiction discussion. My schedule and energy level right now aren't there for the deeper stuff.

DWill · Wed Dec 07, 2011 10:31 pm

I think this is an idea worth trying. The only uncertainty I have about it is that light books may seem to be less needing of discussion than the heavy ones. Sometimes you can like a book a lot, but not find that there are many points to raise about it with other people, other than you really liked it! But I don't know that we've really had many light books to use as examples. I don't have a sense of how the discussion of "Orphaned" went. When I think of a light nf book, something like Malcolm Galdwell's come to mind. But maybe we're talking about "even lighter" books.
That might get us way into the "popular" segment. There's nothing wrong with that, and when I read those books I usually enjoy them, but again I'm not sure of the discussion potential. I do think that if the lightness would propel people right on through to the end of the book, we'd at least have a more satisfying sense of completion. Sometimes we peter out in our discussions, and that might come from us not finishing the book. Maybe, too, we'd just get a different kind of discussion, not as dense and intellectual, maybe more about sharing our experiences and getting off-topic--but in a way that people like.

I might seem ambivalent, but I do think this should be tried.

Dexter · Thu Dec 08, 2011 6:12 am


	DWill wrote: I think this is an idea worth trying. The only uncertainty I have about it is that light books may seem to be less needing of discussion than the heavy ones. Sometimes you can like a book a lot, but not find that there are many points to raise about it with other people, other than you really liked it!

I agree. For example, I was thinking of suggesting the biography of Steve Jobs. I'm sure there are some things you could discuss, but I could see not really having much to say.

Still, it's worth a shot if people are interested.

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