"Justine", Marquis De Sade

Suzanne · Thu Aug 26, 2010 5:40 pm

Ok, so I pick this book up real cheap, one buck, the author is Marquis De Sade. So I thought I would read this book, “Justine” to see what all the hype is about regarding Sade. I’ve heard and read the stories about Sade, I saw the movie “Quills”, and I actually believed I would gain something from his writing. Boy oh boy was I wrong. This novel, “Justine” is nothing but depravity and vileness.

This fiend’s imagination is beyond sick, and I certainly can understand why the word sadism has been attributed to him. Napoleon sent Sade to jail due to this book! Of course this vileness and depravity has not stopped me from continuing to read it. I do have to admit that the passages about the husband getting excited over slicing up his wife and watching her bleed almost did it for me. But on I go.

For those who have not read this book, the story is such; two young orphaned sisters go their separate ways. One chooses to become a prostitute and to lose her virtue. Justine decides to clutch onto her virtue and experiences one maniac after another and is defiled within an inch of her life over, and over, and over again. The prostitute sister, becomes wealthy, the virtuous Justine ends up in chains.

Sade’s philosophy seems to be that if nature has given a man these horrendous ideas that excite them, these ideas should be carried out, otherwise they are going against nature. He must have really committed himself to this ideology because out of his 70 odd years of life, only 12 were spent outside of prisons and mental institutions.

Has anyone read this book, “Justine”, and is anyone a fan of Sade’s writing? Am I missing something profound in his ramblings? I have less that 100 pages to go, I will finish it, but I will not be reading the 7,000 page sequel.

President Camacho · Thu Aug 26, 2010 5:45 pm

Interesting!!!

Kevin · Fri Oct 01, 2010 4:39 am


	Suzanne wrote: Sade’s philosophy seems to be that if nature has given a man these horrendous ideas that excite them, these ideas should be carried out, otherwise they are going against nature.

I haven't read anything by him... but this synopsis of his ideology reminds me of something a co-worker mentioned to me once, a thousand times with minor variations, revolving around the idea of there being no accidents. You say here ideas but I wonder if power could fit as well or better. If someone has power over another than he should exercise it because otherwise he'd be going against nature. It's the viewpoint that restraint is a weakness hurting not only the individual indulging in it but society itself in that it holds back its strongest members. I am guessing that it's a formation of the Superman philosophy that motivated Crime and Punishment's Raskolnikov to kill the money lender and the lout in the dream sequence to beat the horse.

Suzanne · Fri Oct 01, 2010 5:56 am

Well there certainly is a lot of power wielding going on through out this novel, but I do remember the word ideas. What ever horrible ideas that can be thought of by a man should be acted upon. But you are right, just the word “man” may imply a sense of power. It is interesting that you mention that there are no accidents. This poor girl tries so hard to find a safe place, but each time she finds herself in a new location her circumstances become more and more horrific. If there are no accidents, then another gruesome message that may be coming from this novel is; she is asking for it, or this is her lot in life. Overall, a very disturbing book, thank you for your thoughts.

President Camacho · Sat Jan 21, 2012 3:06 am

I've just started reading this novel. I think 'appetites' or 'passions' which are self serving are what people should accept as nature's guiding hand. The impulses to satiate an appetite should be acted upon. Suppression of these appetites would go against nature.

This is a horrible philosophy in my opinion and would never work. Indulgence in the bedroom, ok, but killing your Mom to get at money so that you can afford male prostitutes? WHAT?!?!?! lol

The sex in this novel is about gratification and power - women get power from it, too! It also appears to be about how French culture seemed to breed injustice and evil by making virtuous behavior nearly impossible for the masses.

Suzanne · Fri Jan 27, 2012 10:54 pm

Not only is living a virtuous life imposible it just may kill you. This is what I got from De Sade anyway. Although I would like to disagree with you about the women in De Sade's world and how they may receive power I can't. Justine's sister shows that if a woman just accepts her fate and lives as a vessal for the depravity of men she will thrive and prosper. This may be why the sister never even attempted to live a virtuous life. I would be interested in hearing your thoughts when you finish. It gets crazy sick.

President Camacho · Thu Feb 02, 2012 12:09 pm

I dunno. It seems like the main message is that in a world where virtue is punished and immorality is rewarded, immorality is the means to be employed to achieve fortune. Where virtue is rewarded - there is a double good conferred because virtue is not only its own reward - it's rewarded again by society. In this society, the society of pre-revolutionary France, Sade's libertine views and dog-eat-dog type immoral behavior probably prevailed and made virtuosity very costly and near impossible.

His message, to me, as it's also a very strong personal philosophy of mine, is: morals are a luxury and have costs associated with them.

As for power - I recognized no misogyny or sexual bias. Remember the woman who breaks Justine out of prison? She is a powerful woman and a leader of men.

Justine's sister whored herself until her vagina was worth more than any other in France. That's power.

As for Sade being in prison and mental institutions his whole life, it was mostly due to his wife's mother, his sexual appetites, and his writing. Sade was sentenced to death for sodomizing his man servant, I believe, but they commuted the sentence to imprisonment. He was only moved to a mental institution after he yelled from the Bastille, "They're killing prisoners in here!!!!" hahaha! Supposedly it caused something of a riot and then 12 days after that incident the Bastille was stormed by the citizens and torn down!

lol

This man was a prisoner his whole life for his sexual appetite and decadence. His mind was probably very much warped from such treatment.

youkrst · Thu Feb 02, 2012 11:33 pm

i thought this bit from the intro quite interesting and might explain a little where the Marquis was coming from...


	Quote: The scheme of this novel (yet, 'tis less a novel than one might suppose) is doubtless new; the victory gained by Virtue over Vice, the rewarding of good, the punishment of evil, such is the usual scheme in every other work of this species: ah! the lesson cannot be too often dinned in our ears! But throughout to present Vice triumphant and Virtue a victim of its sacrifices, to exhibit a wretched creature wandering from one misery to the next; the toy of villainy; the target of every debauch; exposed to the most barbarous, the most monstrous caprices; driven witless by the most brazen, the most specious sophistries; prey to the most cunning seductions, the most irresistible subornations for defense against so many disappointments, so much bane and pestilence, to repulse such a quantity of corruption having nothing but a sensitive soul, a mind naturally formed, and considerable courage: briefly, to employ the boldest scenes, the most extraordinary situations, the most dreadful maxims, the most energetic brush strokes, with the sole object of obtaining from all this one of the sublimest parables ever penned for human edification; now, such were, 'twill be allowed, to seek to reach one's destination by a road not much traveled heretofore. Have I succeeded, Constance? Will a tear in thy eye determine my triumph? After having read Justine, wilt say: "Oh, how these renderings of crime make me proud of my love for Virtue! How sublime does it appear through tears! How 'tis embellished by misfortunes ! "Oh, Constance! may these words but escape thy lips, and my labors shall be crowned

what if the two sisters are literary representations of two inner aspects of one person.

one the side that "plays the game" and the other that "strives for perfection and purity" sort of thing.

outwardly the story seems grotesque but within a metaphorical interpretation....

just a thought

President Camacho · Fri Feb 03, 2012 11:12 am

This book extolled the virtues of living the life of a villain - it did NOT advocate morally correct living. The Marquis de Sade was a Libertine. He was trying to persuade others to be the same. This is apparent when each villain preaches.

The two sisters represent two life-style choices. They are two separate ideologies/philosophies of life.

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