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Chris OConnor 
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 Posted: Sat Feb 16, 2008 4:23 pm Post subject: June & July 2008 Fiction Suggestions & Selection
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June & July 2008
Fiction Book Suggestions & Selection
This thread is for making suggestions for our June & July fiction book discussion. Please tell us what books you think would make excellent discussion selections.
When you see someone else making a suggestion take an honest look at it and then make some comments. Would you read their suggested book? Would you participate in a discussion of their book? This thread is for discussing what we want to read, as a community, and not just for making quick hit-n-run suggestions.
Your suggestion will be given more weight if...
...you explain a little about why you think it would be a good choice
...provide a link to a review or two
...you are a somewhat active forum participant
...you comment on the other book suggestions
So what would you like to read in June & July of 2008? |
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| Posted: Sat Feb 16, 2008 4:23 pm Post subject: Please help to support this site
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Ophelia
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| Posted: Tue Mar 04, 2008 9:24 am Post subject: A Clockwork Orange
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How about A Clockwork Orange, by Anthony Burgess?
It's only 192 pages, and there is a lot to discuss.
http://www.amazon.com/Clockwork-Orange-Anthony-Burgess/dp/0393312836/r ef=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1204640075&sr=1-1
Here is one of the amazon readers' reviews:
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Even though the book was written over 30 years ago, I believe it is still as powerful today as it was back then; perhaps even more so. Alex, the protagonist, is almost innocently committing violent crimes with his friends; for he isn't -trying- to be bad, he just is. He likes violence, and that's the way he is.
When Alex's friends gang up on him and leave him to be arrested by the police, Alex is sentenced to 14 years in prison. But then the opportunity to change presents itself to Alex, and he can't help but take the offer. Without ruining the story as so many previous reviewers have already done, I can say that when everything is said and done, important questions arise: is being good truly good if it is not by choice? Is it good to be bad, if that is what one chooses?
The book first came out in the 60s, and the American version lacked the last and 21st chapter from the original story. When it was republished, the book had the 21st chapter. Depending on which copy you read, with the last chapter or without it, the book will have an entirely different feel to it. The old copy represents the horrible realization that bad minds are always bad; the newer version leaves the reader with hope. Hope for Alex, and hope for oneself. Change is possible, the book says, no matter what sort of person you are.
A Clockwork Orange is truly a great work, one that will appeal to people for different reasons; and affect them in completely different ways. But it will affect them. |
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Penelope
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| Posted: Tue Mar 04, 2008 10:52 am Post subject:
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I love 'A Clockwork Orange' and I think it is one of those books which if you read it, you never feel quite the same again.
But I have read it and studied it on an extra-mural University Course - so although I will be happy to 'do it again', I would prefer to read another book and 'Buddha of Suburbia' sounds like a good choice. |
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Constance963
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| Posted: Fri Mar 07, 2008 12:32 pm Post subject:
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| Hm, that could be a very interesting selection. I've seen snippets of the movie which always look really disturbing to me. Is the book bloody/gory? |
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Ophelia
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| Posted: Fri Mar 07, 2008 1:10 pm Post subject:
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I have seen the film (by Stanley Kubrick, 1971), which is very violent at times (though in the light of what one sees nowadays....), and I have only read reviews of the book (1962).
The reviews tend to say that there is much less violence in the book, or that it is presented in a way which is not as disturbing.
What do Burgess readers say?
This could explain some of the questions which are asked in the review I quoted above, and which would be rather absurd if they were asked about the film:
With that level of violence, I don't care much whether people are being good for the sake of being good or for any other reason, as long as they leave other people alone! |
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Ophelia
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| Posted: Sat Mar 08, 2008 12:52 am Post subject:
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A Clockwork Orange could also be an opportunity to study nihilism, which in view of some developments in modern society I feel I should know more about.
Here is another interesting review from amazon.com:
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Disturbing and brilliant novella, March 27, 2005
By alexliamw
'A Clockwork Orange' deserves its place right up there at the top of dystopian fiction, a superb and thought-provoking piece that is amply cynical about government, media, the police and the prison service while remaining pleasingly sceptical of the alternatives (the damning indictment of the opposition towards the end), but without getting overly preachy, usually operating by suggestion rather than overt political statement. More broadly it sets up the philosophical dilemma over free will and its moral ramifications, coming down on the side of liberty but thoughtfully maintaining that no solution is perfect. For me the ending (not in the original) is a tad odd and seems to be an attempt at justifying Alex's choices, rather unsuccessfully. The book is more nihilistic where no solution works - Alex returning to his original state is endlessly depressing, for instance, however much we may have opposed the state's action against him.
The really brilliant thing about Clockwork Orange, however, is the language use. Not only is the language of nadsat an inventive device which is deployed brilliantly, but the whole style of prose is searing, incredibly original and frequently humorous. The book has the capability to be vivid, shocking and simultaneously worryingly amusing in its attitude. Overall, combined with the power of its nihilistic force, it makes a huge impression on the reader. |
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Ophelia
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| Posted: Sun Mar 09, 2008 12:28 pm Post subject: French literature: Albert Camus.
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As I am looking into French recent history and French literature (relatively new topics for me) an in particular Pied Noir writers (from Algeria), how about:
The Plague, by Alber Camus?
I read this in high school, together with many other French students, and it's definitely not a cheerful book, but it would lend itself to discussion, and I thought perhaps bring together the fiction and non-fiction forums, because of its themes?
There are many interesting reviews at amazon.com, here is one:
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Some thoughts on Camus' Plague, April 28, 2002
By Pen Name? "mlarsony"
The plague is an allegory, for fascism and totalitarianism. The novel deals largely with individuals' varying reactions to the plague as it emerges and settles in on the city of Oran. Only those who act or are important in the development of the scene are named, and though many of the characters perceive reality differently, we are able to sympathize with where they are coming from. The novel is about overcoming indifference and performing good acts that we are all capable of. Camus makes it clear that there are no heroes in the novel, only people who recognize their responsibility and embrace life. Even though the plague is ultimately "defeated," there is no typical happy ending, for the plague bacillus never dies. This novel is still entirely relevant to our world today. The central point of Camus' writing is "the absurd." The absurd is characterized by the confrontation of "rational man and the indifferent universe." Camus dismisses ideas such as transcendence, or a leap of faith, there is no existential commitment. He looks to embrace the absurd, to keep it alive. Camus is very much a moralist and a pacifist; he deplored one-sided views of any political situation, and broke off relationships with other prominent writers of his time such as Sartre, whose ties to Communism and justification of violence Camus abhorred. He did not wish to take sides in the French-Algerian war. Camus did not seem to identify with a particular people, a belief system or any form of certainty, but viewed man as being in constant revolt against the powers that tried to enslave him, keeping him from living. Camus would rather embrace the absurdity of life than a frail system. Camus did not accept, as other "existentialist" writers of his time did, that humans were born into the world as nothing and it was up to the individual to entirely assert his own identity through his/her acts. "For Camus a man's acts could reveal an intrinsic integrity or dignity which were always there but which had laid dormant and unasserted until he was made to face the absurdity of his mortal condition in an immortal universe."(Masters, Camus: A Study). How The Plague deals with Reality:
- Subjectivity, shows how one person's reality is not the same as another's. It is only when people begin to realize that they are indeed "in the same boat" as one another (that they have common interests and a common spirit to fight for, and that they needn't be alienated from one another) that the plague can be seen as a real problem which needs to be fought, rather than an abstraction which must be hidden from.
- Shows how many cannot comprehend the enormity of a situation until it falls upon them, still often triggering disbelief.
- Looking at the "small things," people's reactions, etc. which "history" might ignore.
- Paying close attention to the conditions of the society; the indifference and apathy that helped to allow the plague to take hold.
- In historicizing an event like the Nazis occupation and plundering of Europe, it seems all too easy to look past the indifference which allowed such events to take place. The view in much of Europe was that it was someone else's problem, and even after their own nation was attacked, many merely tried to adapt, acted to appease the Nazis, or hoped that it would soon pass... they still saw it as someone else's problem to take care of. Camus was born in poverty in Algeria, somewhat of a "stranger" in France during the German occupation, but he found himself confronted with the situation, nonetheless, and was a key contributor to the French resistance army. One of his most important contributions was his work as the editor of Combat, the major underground resistance newspaper informing others of the problems and giving voice to a movement that all individuals needed to recognize their place in.
I hope that in reading Camus' Plague, you will be inspired and recognize the great relevance this novel still holds. |
The page about Camus on wikipedia is also worth reading:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Camus
http://www.amazon.com/Plague-Albert-Camus/dp/0679720219/ref=pd_sim_b_t itle_3 |
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Ophelia
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| Posted: Sun Mar 09, 2008 6:48 pm Post subject: One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest
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One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest, by Ben Kesey.
I admit I haven't read this book, and I'll probably also be the only one on this forum who hasn't seen seen the film.
Have you read the book?
My attention was attracted by a short review:
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# Freedom of mind...
#
The tension rises steadily in the book, while mental freedom is at stake. Divers characters bounce together in a closed ward. And then a leader falls between them. The struggle between sticking up for a group or maintaining your own individual safety is so painfully described it hurts. Throw in a pound of embarrassment and tiny moments of pure hatred and you have the overall feel of "One flew over the Cuckoo's nest |
Here is one of the reviews at amazon:
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Simply Divine, May 14, 2003
By Jeffrey Leach (Omaha, NE USA) - See all my reviews
(TOP 50 REVIEWER) (REAL NAME)
This review is from: One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest (Paperback)
Counterculture icon and author Ken Kesey (1935-2001) wrote his first novel, "One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest," in 1960. The book was a response to the author's experiences testing mind-altering drugs for the federal government and his later tenure as a nurse's aide in the same facility. In the introduction to the novel, Robert Faggen places this seminal novel in its proper context, arguing that this book incorporates several themes of the 1950's: the Cold War, the plight of the Native Americans, the reliance on psychiatry as a cure all for social problems, and the vestigial remnants of McCarthyism. Even if you could care less about how Kesey's book fits into American cultural history, you could hardly fail to miss the overarching theme of his novel: the tensions between the individual and the state, between those trapped in an industrial society and those who wish to live in freedom. There is a film version of this book starring Jack Nicholson and Louise Fletcher that adequately captures Kesey's stark visions.
The author's tale takes place in a mental asylum at an unknown time. Perhaps this is because time has little importance to the inmates in the facility. The people in this particular ward of the hospital fall into categories of `acute' or `chronic,' depending on whether they have hope of recovery or are irrevocably ill. The days are full of drudgery, an endless round of medications interspersed with playing cards against the background of canned polka music. Everyday the acute patients meet for group therapy that really doubles as a McCarythyesque tattling session. The name of the game is acquiescence to the myriad rules and regulations of the institution. Those inmates who violate the rules earn a trip to the disturbed ward or a quick trip to the electroshock chamber. Repeated disobedience could lead to a lobotomy. Predictably, fear is the perpetual state in which most of the patients live. But with the appearance of a nonconformist named Randle McMurphy, fear starts to give way to a burgeoning hope that life will become better in this hospital.
The narrator of this story is Chief Bromden, a mixed blood Indian who is a patient in the ward. This man spends his days mopping and sweeping the floors while hearing and seeing everything that goes on around him. The Chief fears that something called the `Combine' controls the world. For him, the `Combine' is the machinery that fills the walls and floors of the hospital, constantly spying on and controlling the men in the ward. He believes that those who work in the asylum are actually full of cogs and gears, are part of this giant, controlling machine. Moreover, the staff and the patients believe that Bromden is a deaf mute. He isn't, but Kesey's choice of this Indian as the narrator of unfolding events is a stroke of brilliance. Since no one thinks the Chief can hear or speak, he becomes privy to every activity in the institution. The staff speaks freely around him because they feel they have nothing to worry about. His cleaning duties allow him full access to every area of the floor, including the room where the staff meets to discuss other inmates. You cannot help but like Bromden, and you quickly question whether his observations are truly the ramblings of a madman.
The central figure in Bromden's `Combine' theory is Nurse Ratched, sometimes referred to as `Big Nurse.' This seemingly grandmotherly woman personifies the Chief's fear of control and cold aloofness. Ratched runs the floor from her little glass booth, her hands on the levers of the machinery that controls the lights, the music, the group therapy sessions, and even most of the doctors. Her voice alone controls the destiny of the inmates. Ratched enforces the rules and regulations, and she decides who receives punishment or release. Big Nurse encourages stool pigeons and belittles the patients with implied threats and stony glares, often masked under an ersatz exterior of patience and cheerfulness. With the arrival of McMurphy, Ratched prepares for a battle of wills that by extension is a war between the individual and the state.
Randle McMurphy is a boisterous, tattooed, redheaded troublemaker ducking a sentence on a work farm by acting crazy. Right from the start, McMurphy undermines the rules and regulations of the hospital. He gambles for money, wonders the hall wearing nothing but towels, sings, and challenges Ratched's authority by going to the floor doctor to receive rule waivers. But far, far worse is McMurphy's effect on the other inmates in the institution. His breezy spirit and tenaciousness encourages others to demand changes in the daily routine. Randle is a subversive of the worst type, and Ratched will do anything in her power to slap down this upstart to her fascistic rule. The end of the story seems to mark a significant defeat for the concept of individualism, but if one reads closely it is apparent Kesey keeps the dream of freedom alive however ephemeral it may be.
Although I disagree strongly with Kesey's career as a counterculture mainstay, I loved this book. Everything about it is brilliant, from the characterization to the tight writing style. The Penguin edition even includes pencil sketches of people Kesey drew during his work as a nurse's aide. These haunting sketches add a special dimension to the text. Ultimately, the novel works because of its messages of freedom versus entrapment and the dangers of both conformity and nonconformity to the human soul. I recommend you run, not walk, to get this book. |
http://www.amazon.com/One-Flew-Over-Cuckoos-Nest/dp/0451163966/ref=ed_ oe_p |
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lisamarie
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| Posted: Sun Mar 09, 2008 10:03 pm Post subject:
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Ophelia,
Don't feel bad. I haven't read it or seen the film. |
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Constance963
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| Posted: Mon Mar 10, 2008 8:36 am Post subject:
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| I read The Plague in college and I loved it. I'd definitely be willing to re-read it. |
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By Frans de Waal
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