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it's your moral duty to have children. you have a moral duty to people who dont yet exist
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- ant
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- LanDroid
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Re: it's your moral duty to have children. you have a moral duty to people who dont yet exist
This is clearly a non-sequitur. Why would you assume or imagine that a world with 100 billion people would survive for billions of years where one with 10 billion would not?The idea that people are morally obliged to have as many children as possible has some radical implications. The biggest is that a world in which many people—20, 50, even 100 billion—are alive, but each has a life that’s only barely worth living, is preferable to a world where only, say, 10 billion people are extremely happy. Let’s call these Big Bad World and Small Happy World, respectively.
This conclusion may seem ludicrous. Of course you’d rather live in a world where everyone’s happy than one where people are just scraping by! But this intuition is wrong.
Imagine that the end of Small Happy World is the end of humankind. Everyone’s as happy as can be, and then they all die. Meanwhile, in Big Bad World, the human race continues on for billions of years, at a level where life is worth living, but not spectacular. Would we not then feel that the Small Happy World people are doing (sic) selfish? Rather than going on with the human race, and accept the sacrifice that this means, they’re living high and not letting anyone succeed them. This is clearly wrong.
- ant
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Re: it's your moral duty to have children. you have a moral duty to people who dont yet exist
Im surprised Interbane hasnt chimed in here.
I think he's for "population management " because there allegedly aint enough resources for everyone.
I think he's for "population management " because there allegedly aint enough resources for everyone.
- Interbane
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Re: it's your moral duty to have children. you have a moral duty to people who dont yet exist
I read it but didn't care. The "philosophy" wasn't upsetting, it was stupid.
A million half-happy people is not a better situation than 400k fully happy people. Sure, there is more "total happiness", but that's shallow reasoning. The problem is seen if you flip the perspective and instead consider total "unhappiness". With 400k fully happy people, you have 0% unhappiness. With a million half-happy people, you have 50% unhappiness. A much greater difference than measuring happiness alone. Reduction of harm and uhappiness is arguably a more important goal than maximizing total happiness. But then, even the attempt to apply quantification is a failure.
A million half-happy people is not a better situation than 400k fully happy people. Sure, there is more "total happiness", but that's shallow reasoning. The problem is seen if you flip the perspective and instead consider total "unhappiness". With 400k fully happy people, you have 0% unhappiness. With a million half-happy people, you have 50% unhappiness. A much greater difference than measuring happiness alone. Reduction of harm and uhappiness is arguably a more important goal than maximizing total happiness. But then, even the attempt to apply quantification is a failure.
“In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and has been widely regarded as a bad move.” - Douglas Adams
- ant
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Re: it's your moral duty to have children. you have a moral duty to people who dont yet exist
Although Ill grant that the idea was silly, it doesnt seem like you read it all.
- Interbane
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Re: it's your moral duty to have children. you have a moral duty to people who dont yet exist
I read it all, including many of the comments. I was trying to figure out if he was joking.
“In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and has been widely regarded as a bad move.” - Douglas Adams
- ant
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Re: it's your moral duty to have children. you have a moral duty to people who dont yet exist
You have a moral duty to people who will exist in the year 2100 who might or might not suffer from catastrophic climate change. Therefore, you support green legislation that might or might not prevent climate change from impacting those future lives, huh?Interbane wrote:I read it all, including many of the comments. I was trying to figure out if he was joking.
- LanDroid
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Re: it's your moral duty to have children. you have a moral duty to people who dont yet exist
No. According to the author, humans should procreate like bonobo/rabbit hybrids 'til we reach 100 billion strong, then level off for billions of years as everyone rejoices in his or her misery knowing the optimal aggregated happiness coefficient has been attained.
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Re: it's your moral duty to have children. you have a moral duty to people who dont yet exist
We can't know the future. Any current moral duty outweighs potential moral duty for this reason. But potential moral duty is a factor, especially for the nearer future and when the stakes are possibly catastrophic.You have a moral duty to people who will exist in the year 2100 who might or might not suffer from catastrophic climate change.
“In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and has been widely regarded as a bad move.” - Douglas Adams