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Is Obama a Socialist? 

Is Obama a Socialist?
Yes 34%  34%  [ 10 ]
No 66%  66%  [ 19 ]
Total votes : 29

Is Obama a Socialist? 
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Post Is Obama a Socialist?
Is Obama a Socialist?



Thu Oct 01, 2009 12:24 am
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What is the largest benefit of socialism, and what is the largest detriment? Does Obama advocate a socialist approach for the sake of the benefits, or is it that he has a tendency toward socialist governing because of some philosophy?

How about I just go read a book. :wall:

I'm politically undereducated.



Thu Oct 01, 2009 1:07 am
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No, Obama is not a socialist. But I kind of wish he were along with the United States.



Thu Oct 01, 2009 7:36 am
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Post 
It is capitalism that brought you the computer technology you're enjoying right now to share with us your opinion that you prefer socialism.



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Yes he is, take health care for example. His agenda is not just health care reform, he wants government owned health care.

and I agree with Chris.
Capitalism, particularly American style capitalism has it flaws, but ultimately it results in the fairest and most efficient distribution of wealth.



Thu Oct 01, 2009 9:17 am
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Post 
Stahrwe wrote:
Capitalism, particularly American style capitalism has it flaws, but ultimately it results in the fairest and most efficient distribution of wealth.


I think it is safe to say that the people advocating socialism over capitalism envision their personal standard of living increasing under socialism, while the people advocating capitalism over socialism know that their standard of living would decrease under socialism. This is a matter of rational self-interest.

American-style Capitalism is the best system for distributing wealth ever to exist in the history of human civilization. Yes, there are flaws and some oversight is necessary, but the bottom line is American capitalism provides the highest incentive (profit) thus maximizing personal creativeness and productivity.

If one of you right now were sitting on a fantastic idea or invention that you believe could benefit hundreds of thousands of people, what would motivate you to take the risk necessary to see that concept from mere idea to final marketable product? Would you be more motivated under a system that rewards you, the entrepreneur with the revolutionary idea and product, with the same fruits as your neighbor who doesn't contribute anything more to society other than manual labor? Or would you be more apt to devote your time and energy to making your idea a reality if you knew that you stood to gain great financial riches as a result? You'd be being less than honest if you said you would put just as much effort into bringing your good or service to market under both reward systems. Clearly, capitalism and the potential for financial gain, in the form of realized profits, motivates like nothing else in human history.

What would happen to society if we eliminated the greatest reward ever devised? What would the future hold if great minds were not motivated to share their great goods and services with the rest of society? Wouldn't we all suffer?

Personally, I love to hear stories of personal success. When I watch programs about small business owners becoming wealthy and financially independent off of their entrepreneurial efforts I get excited and want to congratulate them. I don't get pissed and expect them to share their wealth with me. They earned it and I didn't. Just them sharing their story with me is a gift alone, because it provides me with the motivation to come up with the next amazing widget.

I do agree that there are some disgusting disparities between the super rich and horrifically poor, but why throw the baby out with the bath water? Capitalism is an effective economic system whereas socialism has never led to prosperity for any nation in history. Some will argue that socialism has never been given a fair shake. Well, hasn't it been tested enough to know that it doesn't motivate or reward sufficiently to bring out the best in human nature?

Again, if you're advocating socialism I ask you to think about this. If there were a redistribution of wealth would you benefit personally? Of course you would. That's the real reason you want the wealth redistributed. Because it will go from someone elses pocket to your pocket.



Thu Oct 01, 2009 9:53 am
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Chris summed up my thoughts on socialism quite nicely… I do not want handouts… I can earn my own keep… If someone else cannot then they deserve less… plain and simple.

Socialism has failed in every society that has attempted it… humans corrupt the ideal and things end up worse than capitalisms darkest imaginings. History shows us many things… one of them is that socialism does not work.

Later


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Thu Oct 01, 2009 10:25 am
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Quote:
Chris summed up my thoughts on socialism quite nicely… I do not want handouts… I can earn my own keep… If someone else cannot then they deserve less… plain and simple.


That is a nice idea. Until you actually need help. And everyone does at some point in their life whether they want to admit it or not.



Thu Oct 01, 2009 10:31 am
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Post Capitalism and charity are not mutually exclusive
Capitalism does not preclude works of charity. In fact money making businesses from local restaurants to major corporations given generously to their community and those in need. The difference between that and socialism is that in capitalism, the individuals closest to the need, best determine how to help. In socialism, the bureaucracy makdes those decisions, and being removed from the immediate situation, are less efficient in the management.



Thu Oct 01, 2009 10:40 am
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I've needed help and it was available without socialism.

My entire childhood was spent in foster homes and orphanages. Through donations and government assistance the help was there....and under a capitalist system.



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Quote:
Seespotrun
That is a nice idea. Until you actually need help. And everyone does at some point in their life whether they want to admit it or not.


Possibly but that 'help" does not need to come from the government, or be continuous… handouts make people lazy we can see the truth of this in our own American sub-cultures right now.

Later


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Thu Oct 01, 2009 10:44 am
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Post 
Socialism isn't the boogie man many believe it to be. Stalin could not have been trusted to run any kind of government. nor could the current chinese government be trusted to provide for civil liberties, under any name.

Obama is not a socialist. I don't see a trend toward socialized McDonalds, or socialized Walmart.

What we do have is a need for affordable, quality health care. This should be a thing regulated by government the same way fire and police are regulated by the government.

Health care is one of those things that cannot function as a free market. There is no choice involved for the patient. If you are going blind and you could be cured by a proceedure, you really have no choice. If it is at all possible for you to obtain the resources to pay the bill, you will pay the bill, no matter the cost. Need to sell your house? Lose your retirement? go into massive debt? These are all things a patient would do to maintain their vision.

Cancer costs everything you own. There really isnt a price on it, and you don't really have the option of not trying to be treated.

I started a thread on this topic.
http://www.booktalk.org/national-health-care-t6866.html

Government run does not equal ineptitude. "Do you want beurocrats in charge of whether you live or die?"

They already are. Health insurance companies determine your fate.

"Do you want your health care run like the POSTAL SERVICE!?"

Yes. I pay 44 cents and they send my dip-shit note that i wrote to somebody about how my day went, across the country, in a freaking air plane, and it gets there within the week.

Perhaps none of the current solutions in considerations are the perfect one, but we need something different to happen. Big buisness is worse than big government. At least you vote on government.


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Post An MRI for a broken wrist
I agree with Johnson and Chris and Frank on this.

I do think Obama is a socialist, but we have a major problem with our health care that can be fixed with four things.

#1 Stop using expensive diagnostic equipment when cheaper is just as good. Had a broken arm, wanted to do an MRI. What's wrong with an Xray?
#2 Stop unnecessary procedures. Daugher fractured index finger in car door. Dr. wanted to operate on it. If he didn't it might heal crooked. What if you do operate on it? It might be cooked. Said no to the surgery. Don't notice any crookedness.
#3 Stop making people go to Dr. for simple treatments. Excuse me for being blunt, but if I have jock itch, why do I have to see a Dr. to get a prescription for cream? Lots of other examples of things we should be able to self medicate or have a nurse practitioner in pharmacies.
#4 Tort reform.
#5 Give me a free scooter but make everyone else pay for theirs.

OK, that's five, I lied.

Off topic aren't I?

OBama, look who I surround myself with?

Jeremiah Wright
Bill Ayers
Father Flagher
Van Jones
how many do you want?



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Post 
haha.

Star...

I bet you were forwarding those "Obama is a secret muslim", and "Obama fist bump: points to terrorist connections?" chain letters.

What's funny is that right wing crazies don't need to be associated with nut jobs, like Ayers or Wright...

They ARE the nutjobs!

George Bush jr.
Dick Cheney
Rush Limbaugh (sp?)
Glenn Beck
Sean Hannity

These are some of the people you really don't want to be associated with.


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Only the ones about the birth certificate.



Thu Oct 01, 2009 2:13 pm
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