Are the women treated this way in Muslim commuinities here in Canada and the US?

I often wonder about that.

Carly

Hello Carly,


I cannot answer your question about the States or Canada, and I also have little information about France, where I live.
I was surprised when Jan wrote that there are women in burqas in Canada. We have an important Muslim community in France, but they originate from Noth Africa, hence no burqas.

As teachers we sometimes find out that a, say, 16-year-old girl no longer comes to class, and when we ask her friends they say that the girl's father has sent her to Algeria to be maried.

Are you interested in discussing A Splendid Thousand Suns Carly?

Are you thinking of staying with Booktalk?

See you later I hope,

Did it appear that I'm not?

That's what I'm doing here at this topic section.

I am a newbie - if I'm doing something wrong, forgive me.

Carly I'm sorry if this caused confusion. I onlyasked because some newbies sometimes come, write a question, and disappear, so I write back tentatively at first.

As a newbie you are doing great, and I'll take this opportunity to welcome you to Booktalk!

Nice to be here, Ophelia - I love finding places to talk about books.

I have a book discussion forum myself at my own site - I don't get many people there though . . .

http://wildcity.proboards14.com/index.cgi?board=Books

Yes, it's lovely to have a place where you can discuss books. I've had a look at your site, we also find it difficult to find enough people for discussions although we are a bigger structure.
Chris, our organizer, spends money and effort on advertisements so that more people hear about us.

I like to recommend the "Literature Abuse " thread, at the bottom of the home page in the "Humour, polls and fun stuff" heading.

Enjoy!

I'll get to the other posts later - this site has more forum users - it's mostly books, so that helps.

Mine's a writing site, so there's other things too. A lot of the members on my site are young teens around 14 to 18 - they're on the Young People's section.

They're into the high fantasy stuff. Takes me an hour to read a page of the stuff they read - they're great writers though - I'm just amazed how good they are at that age.

There are about 4 to 6 adults who are regulars at Wild City. We don't all read the same things there.

Women do wear burqas in the U.S. I know where I live they sometimes do walk a few steps behind their husbands, bu tfor the most part they do go out by themselves.

Lisa

I found a few weeks ago that burqas are actually forbidden in France under the provisions of an anti-terrorist law: any garment that completely hides your face is forbidden, burqas is only one in the list, with masks and certain types of hoods.

I think it makes sense, it would be very easy for a suicide bomber to hide under a burka.

However, some burqas have reappeared recently, probably for the same reasons that polygamy is tolerated.


Also, Lisamarie, I'm glad you're going to read Splendid Suns, I'm looking forward to your input.

There are lots of women in our cities who wear the Burka. Even more since our Foreign Secretary - Jack Straw - asked a Muslim lady to remove her Burka when she came to talk to him as a member of his political constituency. He said he couldn't talk to her properly when he couldn't see her facial expression.

There was a bit of a hoohaa in parliament about it and since then the Muslim ladies seem to be exerting their right to cover their faces and when I visit Blackburn - there are lots of obviously young ladies who are wearing black from head to toe with just their eyes showing. That is how you can tell they are young - also the way they stride out. Many of them are also wearing strappy high heel shoes too.

There was a wonderful photograph in our paper of a Muslim man taking a portrait photograph of a group of Muslim ladies all wearing their Burkas - and I thought it was great......because it was ridiculous and made me laugh.

I don't think it is very encouraging to race relations encountering all of these 'covered up' ladies but I would defend to the death their right to choose. They do insist that they choose to wear the burka and that it is not imposed on them by the males. So what can one say?

Don't you think it is rather dangerous not to allow people to wear just what they choose?

Penelope wrote:

There's the rub: what they choose, or what the men choose for them?

I'm sure some young women can decide to wear something like that to make a political statement, but I am more interested in all those who have no choice.

For me it's like the islamic law which says that a man can take a second wife if the first one agrees.
What's the first wife's "agreement " worth when the husband has so many means of retaliation?

The ladies I've seen, certainly do seem to be making a statement and don't look browbeaten.

I do agree with you though Ophelia. A number of beautiful young Asian girls have been murdered by their fathers and brothers - here and recently. For refusing to marry the person chosen for them or for choosing to marry some one considered unsuitable.

This is a major issue and of much more concern than the wearing of the Burka.

It is just that I don't want to see our basic human rights eroded.

Yes, Lisa - that's what I see here in Toronto too. Rarely do you see a burqa-clad woman walking with a man.

A Muslim couple lived here in our buiilding for a while (my husband manages/supers an apartment building). They were lovely people - she was such a cheerful sort. A bit sensitive though - she once knocked on our door and Jeff wasn't in the apartment - I don't know why people expect a superintendent to be in his/her apartment at all times; if they were, they wouldn't be doing their work - ha ha!

Anyway, she came out to the front lot where I was gardening to tell me that she thought Jeff was avoiding her - that he'd looked through the keyhole, saw her standing there and didn't answer the door - she thought it was because she was Muslim.

I spoke to her husband and asked him to convince her that this wasn't so.

They were from Algeria and while they were here they had a sweet little girl.

I remember she came out with her in the stroller one day, then had to rush back up to her apartment with something. She left the little girl in her stroller and asked me to watch her - I was very pleased, as this showed that she trusted me.

If he abused her in any way, we never saw it. I used to hear her yelling at him though - ha ha!

They had to make a quick move to the west coast; I don't know why, but they did. It was around Christmas time - my eldest daughter and her family live in Vancouver and I knew that's where they were going.

I asked if he could take a box of gifts out there. He said he could do that - didn't mind at all. I put them in a Christmas bag - I asked if that bothered him, and he said it certainly did not - he'd be more than glad to carry the bag.

It so happened they couldn't take the bag and box after all - they were over limit on their own luggage - they sent their friend back with the gifts and an envelope for me. He enclosed 40 dollars! He said I should use it to send the gifts by bus or purolator.

I thought that was so sweet.

But burqa's . . . actually forcing women to wear them is abusive, sure, but I think some of the women tend to wear them because they want to.

It must be hard getting used to our customs, wearing what we girls wear here.

(The way I feel about my aging body and face sometimes, I think it would be good to get a burqa - ha ha!)

You know Carly, I know situations like this too. I wanted to write about this in my journal but haven't come to it yet.

Sometimes I hear immigrants saying "The French are racist". When I ask for examples some of the examples are very valid cases of detestable or stupid behaviour, but others are just misinterpreted. I understand why it would be a temptation for the immigrants to interpret everything that happens to them on the basis of ethnicity or religious affiliation, but this tendency to overinterpret does a lot of harm in the end. In the case you mentioned the woman mentioned what her belief was, so you could explain, but in many cases resentment just builds up.

I have been a witness of such scenes in Tours when the immigrant had totally misinterpreted what we had both seen, this was just a non-event, and on another occasion what he had been displeased with was personal, l mean the French person not liking his conversation and not wanting to talk to him much, but the only interpretation he had for this was race (and in a way, isn't it more comfortable than facing truths like: "I talk so much about my personal life and my past girlfriends, I know I bore some people to death...").

Well, what else do we have to go on but our personal lives; and our own individual pasts?

We can't just read books, watch movies, documentaries, etc., and figure that's how it is - that's the bottom line.

What we actually see and experience is important in drawing our conclusions.

I've spoken about racism before - about how some people automatically think non-minorities are racists here in North America. It's not fair for them to generalize like that - it's a form of racism in itself.

I speak of it so much that I think I'm heading toward writing some kind of 'paper' on the thought, but doubt it will be acceptable for publication.