Refuse care based on ideology

And we have four more years of this!! YAY!

Mr. P.

The one thing of which I am positive is that there is much of which to be negative - Mr. P.

I came to get down, I came to get down. So get out ya seat and jump around - House of Pain

HEY! Is that a ball in your court? - Mr. P

I came to kick ass and chew Bubble Gum...and I am all out of Bubble Gum - They Live, Roddy Piper

Can't she just go somewhere else? I don't know about you, but if I own a business I don't want anyone telling me that I have to sell a certain product.

Let us agree, there is no one single reality. Not upon this stage, not in this world, all is in the mind... imagination is the only truth. Because it cannot be contradicted except by other imaginations - Richard Matheson

There are no conclusive indications by which waking life can be distinguished from sleep - Rene Descartes

Is it ok for a doctor to refuse a patient because they are of a race or persuasion they dont agree with?

Say your an Irishman and need emergency service, yet the doctor hates Irish scum...

See the point?

Mr. P.

The one thing of which I am positive is that there is much of which to be negative - Mr. P.

I came to get down, I came to get down. So get out ya seat and jump around - House of Pain

HEY! Is that a ball in your court? - Mr. P

I came to kick ass and chew Bubble Gum...and I am all out of Bubble Gum - They Live, Roddy Piper

I guess. But as far as I can tell, I figure that under normal circumstances the doc should be allowed to choose his clients, so long as he isn't working for a government. If they choose not to serve Irish people, well thats fine.

Of course its a different matter if its a public service. Essential services should be kept under the control of government because of situations like the one you described.

Let us agree, there is no one single reality. Not upon this stage, not in this world, all is in the mind... imagination is the only truth. Because it cannot be contradicted except by other imaginations - Richard Matheson

There are no conclusive indications by which waking life can be distinguished from sleep - Rene Descartes

Yeah, but where do you draw the line?

The hippocratic oath is there for a reason. Now I am not sure if Pharmacists are required to take the oath, but there is also something called Professional Ethics.

What about judges, or police? Should they be allowed to decide who they serve? Should I refuse to sell insurance to those who believe in a god or follow a religion? That is just silly.

Sorry, someone prescribed the medicine, it should be filled. We cannot have this sort of thing happening.

Mr. P.

The one thing of which I am positive is that there is much of which to be negative - Mr. P.

I came to get down, I came to get down. So get out ya seat and jump around - House of Pain

HEY! Is that a ball in your court? - Mr. P

I came to kick ass and chew Bubble Gum...and I am all out of Bubble Gum - They Live, Roddy Piper

To be honest, I'm not really sure. I'll type as I think.

Well there are there things I'm not sure about here.

1. Why did she need a prescription?
2. Does birth control count as medicine?

Really, I'm confused. Does pregnancy count as an illness now? What do you do when you go to the doctor and ask for a prescription for the contraception? Does he make sure that you're really having sex!

I presume that the doc. has some role in making sure it doesn't clash with other medication that you're taking, but couldn't they do the same thing for paracetamol?

Judges and Police are employed by the state. So no, they do what their employer tells them to do. People should do what they're paid to do.

If your employer asks you to sell insurance to Christians and you don't want to, you have two choices;
1. Sell the insurance to them
2. Quit

You have an obligation to do what you're paid to do, if you can't or won't do that, then you must quit.

The question is should a business owner be allowed the right to refuse service to people. I'm inclined to think that they should have that right. That means that homophobes don't have to sell to gays if they don't feel like it.

Of course, a business man should be allowed to do what he wants, within the law. So what should the law be. I believe that the guiding principle should be that all human beings should be allowed to do as they please so long as they do not interfere with the rights of other human beings.

There are certain services that are essential for living. Health, education, water, electricity, policing etc. should be in the control of the state. Preferably the state should be the supplier of the services.

However, if the circumstances were right, I'd have no problem with the state granting private firms licenses to provide these services. However, the state should only grant these licenses on the condition that the service be given to all people.

The question is, does a pharmacist provide an essential servie? Well, people need medicine to survive, so I guess they do. But people also need food to survive. Hell they need a whole variety of nutrients and vitimans, so should shops be obliged to provide all of a human's daily requirements? Should restauraunts be allowed to turn away people who do not comply with their dress code? Should they have the right to turn away somebody wearing a yellow toga? Should they have the right to turn away a nudist? Should they have the right to turn away someone with black skin?

People also need entertainment to be healthy. Should night clubs be allowed to turn away people because they do not conform with a dress code? What if they're just ugly?

I'm not really sure.

Let us agree, there is no one single reality. Not upon this stage, not in this world, all is in the mind... imagination is the only truth. Because it cannot be contradicted except by other imaginations - Richard Matheson

There are no conclusive indications by which waking life can be distinguished from sleep - Rene Descartes

Quote:

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The question is, does a pharmacist provide an essential servie? Well, people need medicine to survive, so I guess they do. But people also need food to survive. Hell they need a whole variety of nutrients and vitimans, so should shops be obliged to provide all of a human's daily requirements? Should restauraunts be allowed to turn away people who do not comply with their dress code? Should they have the right to turn away somebody wearing a yellow toga? Should they have the right to turn away a nudist? Should they have the right to turn away someone with black skin?

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I know it "feels" like a business owner should be able to do business as he pleases but I think that if you allow them to be discretionary about certain things you open up a huge can of worms. To me it seems like a simple litmus test is this: Can the person being denied service easily change the situation? If a restaurant won't serve me because I'm wearing a yellow toga, I can change that easily and just change clothes. If they won't serve me because I'm black or because I'm a homosexual, that's a different story all together. That's not something I can change. And I don't think it's right to just say that, "well, the black or the homosexual can just go eat somewhere else".

As for the birth control, the U.S. has declared it legal. As a pharmacist, you do not have a right to try to be our morality police and overrule the law. If you are that set against birth control then you have a right to NOT run a pharmacy.

I don't know, it seems like it can be a hard line to draw. I understand your point about whether or not birth control should really even count as medicine. But it is a drug and has side effects and problems just like anything else. There are many, many drugs out there that you could argue not necessary. Hell, a die hard Christian might believe that God will heal you and render all drugs not necessary. Of course this person, wouldn't make a very good pharmasist.

Great summation jj!

I was going to allude to the "ability to change" something that is barring access to something, like you did with the dress code at the restaurant.

I also agree that allowing room for ideology in making a decision to provide a service or run a business can open a pandora's box and throw us back into ignorance.

Mr. P.

The one thing of which I am positive is that there is much of which to be negative - Mr. P.

I came to get down, I came to get down. So get out ya seat and jump around - House of Pain

HEY! Is that a ball in your court? - Mr. P

I came to kick ass and chew Bubble Gum...and I am all out of Bubble Gum - They Live, Roddy Piper

But should the government force you to do something you think immoral? Should they be morality police?

If you own, say a newsagent, should you have to sell pornography?

What if wearing a yellow toga is s religious obligation, should one be permitted to someone under that circumstance? For instance, Muslims have to wear a beard, so should you be allowed to deny access to people who have beards? What if you aren't rich enough to buy other clothes?

Dammit, this one is annoying me.

There seems to be only one solution.
We'll have to become communists.

Let us agree, there is no one single reality. Not upon this stage, not in this world, all is in the mind... imagination is the only truth. Because it cannot be contradicted except by other imaginations - Richard Matheson

There are no conclusive indications by which waking life can be distinguished from sleep - Rene Descartes

Niall:

Let me ask a yes or no question:

Is it better to offer birth control, which would be a step toward reducing abortion, or not offer birth control and have unwanted pregnancies?

Equating health care and prescription drugs to pornography is not helping this discussion.

We cannot let ideaology and predjudice make a comeback. We have been fighting the injustice that creates for decades and have made progress.

Aside: Besides being an preventative for pregnacy, contraceptives serve other purposes. They prevent the spread of disease and also can be a cure for femenine disorders such as Ovarian cysts.


Mr. P.

The one thing of which I am positive is that there is much of which to be negative - Mr. P.

I came to get down, I came to get down. So get out ya seat and jump around - House of Pain

HEY! Is that a ball in your court? - Mr. P

I came to kick ass and chew Bubble Gum...and I am all out of Bubble Gum - They Live, Roddy Piper

Quote:

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Adolescent girls and young women are frequently prescribed oral contraceptive pills for irregular or absent menstrual periods, menstrual cramps, acne, PMS, endometriosis, and hormone replacement therapy. For examples, girls diagnosed with Polycystic Ovary Syndrome (PCOS) (a hormone imbalance which causes irregular menstrual periods, acne, and excess hair growth), are prescribed oral contraceptives to lower their hormone levels back to normal and regulate menstrual periods. Girls with acne that is not responding to simple measures are often prescribed hormone pills. Girls whose ovaries are not producing enough estrogen (because of anorexia nervosa, excessive exercise, or damage to the ovaries from radiation or chemotherapy) often take oral contraceptive pills to replace estrogen. Girls with endometriosis are also often prescribed oral contraceptives, in cycles or continuously, to suppress the condition.

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Medical Uses for Oral Contraceptive

Mr. P.

The one thing of which I am positive is that there is much of which to be negative - Mr. P.

I came to get down, I came to get down. So get out ya seat and jump around - House of Pain

HEY! Is that a ball in your court? - Mr. P

I came to kick ass and chew Bubble Gum...and I am all out of Bubble Gum - They Live, Roddy Piper