You are browsing the forum as a guest. Please log in or register to access additional features.
Online reading group and book discussion forum
  FORUMS ABOUT BOOKS VIDEOS ADVERTISE LINKS BLOGS DONATE CHAT CONTACT  

     Log in   Register 


BookTalk.org News
• Thank you for supporting BookTalk.org with your generous donation, Grim!
• Regular casual chats are back on the menu! Check out the calendar for the schedule.

Links to Explore

Community Rules & Tips
For Authors & Publishers
Link to our old forum
Our Amazon.com Sales
Our Forum Statistics
Member Photos
Book Suggestions
BookTalk.org Store
Author Chat Transcripts
Rationally Speaking
Donations to BookTalk.org
FACTS Book Selections
BookTalk Forum Statistics
Games 170 FREE Games





BookTalk.org Store

All store merchandise is sold with no markup. BookTalk.org doesn't earn a profit. These items are sold for fun and to promote our community.

Visit the BookTalk.org store!

Visit the BookTalk.org store!
Visit the BookTalk.org store!

Chat Room

Enter the BookTalk.org Chat Room

Enter our Chat Room

Dec. 2008 Chat Schedule
Jan. 2009 Chat Schedule


Author Interviews


Featured Member Blogs

Robert Tulip's Blog
Frank 013's Blog
Lawrence's Blog
Frank 013's Blog

- View all member Blogs
- See the latest Blog posts



We need your support!

Please support BookTalk.org by donating today.

See who supports us


Show us where you live!
BookTalk.org Member Map

Display Pagerank


Insightful and Innocent Children?

 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    BookTalk.org Forum Index -> Archived Book Discussions 2006-2007 -> Ender's Game - by Orson Scott Card
Author Message
pctacitus
Senior



Usergroups: None


Joined: 28 Feb 2003


Posts: 354

Thanks
Given: 0
Received: 0 in 0 Posts

Gender: None specified



PostPosted: Tue Aug 01, 2006 10:38 pm    Post subject: Insightful and Innocent Children? Reply with quote
Two topics I keep noticing in the various discussions is that the children are too smart and that they are innocent and seem to be corrupted by their circumstances.

Firstly, their intelligence can be explained in an odd way. They are the result of a worldwide search for a few hundred kids, of which, Ender and crew are at the top of the chain. Valentine and Peter were qualified intellectually but not emotionally for admittance into the group. I grew up around an older sister who was always in Gifted and Talented classes, buried in a book and brought home friends who were smarter than her. She was among the smartest in her GT classes in grades 3-8 but then went to a special school for 400 kids a year from a sizeable area and put them in an environment where they were put together to learn not only from their classes but from each other. I saw a sort of battle school environment for the mind from the perspective of the someone who got to sitback and watch the behaviors of others.

Secondly, the corruption of the kids that takes place is the same as all other kids. The circumstances of their lives pushes any corruption that would take place to occur faster in an environment that shields them less than they would have encountered elsewhere. Look at Peter and Valentine who take advantage of tehir minds to maneuver themselves without being in the same place as Ender. Can anyone who has read Ender's Shadow argue that Bean was corrupted by Battle School?

“…the great events in life come from the books, rather than the people, one comes across.” - Robert D. Kaplan, Mediterranean Winter: the Pleasures of History and Landscape in Tunisia, Sicily, Dalmatia, and Greece

Back to top
  Facebook it
Chris OConnor Chris OConnor has been starred
Rhodes Scholar
BookTalk.org Owner

Avatar

Usergroups: None


Joined: 05 May 2002


Posts: 7373

Thanks
Given: 64
Received: 21 in 17 Posts

Gender: Male
Location: Florida
us.gif



PostPosted: Wed Aug 02, 2006 10:31 am    Post subject: Re: Insightful and Innocent Children? Reply with quote
pctacitus

I'd be interested to hear more about how your sister faired in such a competitive environment. How did it effect your relationship with her? Do you think she was pushed too hard as a child? These types of questions are important for any parent with a gifted child. When are you pushing too hard? Should a child be allowed to be a child or should you try to make them into an intellectual giant?

Back to top
  Facebook it
pctacitus
Senior



Usergroups: None


Joined: 28 Feb 2003


Posts: 354

Thanks
Given: 0
Received: 0 in 0 Posts

Gender: None specified



PostPosted: Wed Aug 02, 2006 7:56 pm    Post subject: Re: Insightful and Innocent Children? Reply with quote
The trick with my sister as well as the kids in Ender's game is that they drove themselves. She went from being the smartest or really close to it to being near the bottom of the pack. Granted, the bottom half of her graduating class wound up at places like William & Mary, Virginia Tech or the University of Virginia. It wasn't uncommon for kids to end up at Stanford, the Ivy league or someplace comparable. Imagine a school where the c average kids scored over 1400 SAT score.

It didn't change our relationship. However, I did notice that she enjoyed her classmates more than the people she had been in school with when she was younger. However, I don't doubt that had the children been screened to require aggressive tendencies as would be necessary to lead troops into battle, she would have encountered a much different environment.

“…the great events in life come from the books, rather than the people, one comes across.” - Robert D. Kaplan, Mediterranean Winter: the Pleasures of History and Landscape in Tunisia, Sicily, Dalmatia, and Greece

Back to top
  Facebook it
Display replies from:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    BookTalk.org Forum Index -> Archived Book Discussions 2006-2007 -> Ender's Game - by Orson Scott Card  
Page 1 of 1


 
Recent Topics
» Inaugural Committee Selects Poet for Ceremony
by Saffron on Fri Jan 09, 2009 9:18 am

» Ill Beats Only
by Grim on Fri Jan 09, 2009 9:15 am

» Give me liberty and give me a welfare state
by Grim on Fri Jan 09, 2009 9:12 am

» New York Times - Poetry and Poets
by Saffron on Fri Jan 09, 2009 9:03 am

» Ch. 10: The Bible and Morality
by Dissident Heart on Fri Jan 09, 2009 8:43 am

» Getting Things Done by David Allen
by Thomas Hood on Fri Jan 09, 2009 8:26 am

» Consensus
by Interbane on Fri Jan 09, 2009 2:22 am

» Love
by Interbane on Fri Jan 09, 2009 2:06 am

» Is an agnostic a cowardly atheist?
by Interbane on Fri Jan 09, 2009 1:52 am

» Suggestion by the author of The Paradise Series.
by Dr Paradise on Thu Jan 08, 2009 9:03 pm








BookTalk.org Suggests


Instant Appeal: The 8 Primal Factors That Create Blockbuster Success by Vicki Kunkel

People of the Book: A Novel by Geraldine Brooks

The Spirit Man by Sean Murphy

Stupid Reasons People Die: An Ingenious Plot for Defusing Deadly Diseases by John Corso, M.D.

Additional Book Suggestions


Featured Videos

Andrew Bacevich
"The Limits of Power"

Andrew Bacevich on The Limits of Power

More Videos

Poll
Should it be illegal to wear a "POLICE" shirt?

It should be illegal because.... [4]
It should be legal because.... [4]

You must login to vote


BookTalk.org is a book discussion group, also known as a reading group or book club. We read and talk about non-fiction books, as a group. Live author chats where book group members can interact with and interview authors are common. We often give away free books to our members in book giveaway contests. Our booktalks are open to everybody who enjoys booktalk.  Booktalk is a free online reading group that features quality book reviews, resources for readers and book lovers. Discussing books is our passion. Non-fiction chat, book forum, literature forum, or reading forum. Register a free book club account today. Suggest nonfiction books. Authors and publishers are welcome to plug their books or ask for an author chat or interview.

MAIN NAVIGATION

FORUMSABOUTBOOKSTRANSCRIPTSVIDEOSOLD FORUMSADVERTISELINKSBLOGSFAQDONATECONTACT

BOOKS WE HAVE DISCUSSED
Bad Money: Reckless Finance, Failed Politics, and the Global Crisis of American Capitalism by Kevin PhillipsThe Secret Garden by Frances Hodgson BurnettGodless: How an Evangelical Preacher Became One of America's Leading Atheists by Dan BarkerThe Things They Carried by Tim O'BrienThe Limits of Power: The End of American ExceptionalismLolitaOrlando by Virginia Woolf On Being Certain by Robert A. Burton50 reasons people give for believing in a god by Guy P. HarrisonWalden: Or, Life in the Woods by Henry David ThoreauExile and the Kingdom by Albert CamusOur Inner Ape: A Leading Primatologist Explains Why We Are Who We Are by Frans de WaalYour Inner Fish: A Journey into the 3.5-Billion-Year-History of the Human Body by Neil ShubinNo Country for Old Men by Cormac McCarthyThe Age of American Unreason by Susan JacobyTen Theories of Human Nature by Leslie Stevenson & David HabermanHeart of Darkness by Joseph ConradThe Stuff of Thought: Language as a Window Into Human Nature by Stephen PinkerA Thousand Splendid Suns by Khaled HosseiniThe Lucifer Effect: Understanding How Good People Turn Evil by Philip ZimbardoResponsibility and Judgment by Hannah ArendtInterventions by Noam ChomskyGodless in America by George A. RickerReligious Expression and the American Constitution by Franklyn S. HaimanDeep Economy: The Wealth of Communities and the Durable Future by Phil McKibbenThe God Delusion by Richard DawkinsThe Third Chimpanzee: The Evolution and Future of the Human Animal by Jared DiamondThe Woman in the Dunes by Abe KoboEvolution vs. Creationism: An Introduction by Eugenie C. ScottThe Omnivore's Dilemma: A Natural History of Four Meals by Michael PollanI, Claudius : From the Autobiography of Tiberius Claudius, Born 10 B.C., Murdered and Deified A.D. 54 by Robert GravesBreaking The Spell: Religion as a Natural Phenomenon by Daniel C. DennettA Peace to End All Peace: The Fall of the Ottoman Empire and the Creation of the Modern Middle East Peace by David FromkinThe Time Traveler's Wife by Audrey NiffeneggerThe End of Faith: Religion, Terror, and the Future of Reason by Sam HarrisEnder's Game by Orson Scott CardThe Curious Incident of the Dog in the Night-Time by Mark HaddonValue and Virtue in a Godless Universe by Erik J. WielenbergThe March by E. L DoctorowThe Ethical Brain by Michael GazzanigaFreethinkers: A History of American Secularism by Susan JacobyCollapse: How Societies Choose to Fail or Succeed by Jared DiamondThe Battle for God by Karen ArmstrongThe Future of Life by Edward O. WilsonWhat is Good? The Search for the Best Way to Live by A. C. GraylingCivilization and Its Enemies: The Next Stage of History by Lee HarrisPale Blue Dot: A Vision of the Human Future in Space by Carl SaganHow We Believe: Science, Skepticism, and the Search for God by Michael ShermerLooking for Spinoza: Joy, Sorrow, and the Feeling Brain by Antonio DamasioLies and the Lying Liars Who Tell Them: A Fair and Balanced Look at the Right by Al FrankenThe Red Queen: Sex and the Evolution of Human Nature by Matt RidleyThe Blank Slate: The Modern Denial of Human Nature by Stephen PinkerUnweaving the Rainbow: Science, Delusion and the Appetite for Wonder by Richard DawkinsAtheism: A Reader edited by S.T. JoshiGlobal Brain: The Evolution of Mass Mind From the Big Bang To the 21st Century by Howard BloomThe Lucifer Principle: A Scientific Expedition into the Forces of Nature by Howard BloomGuns, Germs and Steel: The Fates of Human Societies by Jared DiamondThe Demon-Haunted World: Science as a Candle in the Dark by Carl SaganBury My Heart at Wounded Knee: An Indian History of the American West by Dee BrownFuture Shock by Alvin Toffler

OTHER PAGES
Baloney Detection KitBanned Book ListOur Amazon.com SalesMassimo Pigliucci Rationally SpeakingOnline Reading GroupTop 10 Atheism BooksFACTS Book SelectionsAdvertise on BookTalk.org

Copyright © BookTalk.org 2002-2009. All rights reserved.
Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2002 phpBB Group
Website developed by MidnightCoder.ca