1. In The Beginning

Suzanne · Wed Jun 16, 2010 9:32 pm


	Seraphim wrote: Ahh...how could I forget the sword? I really like that conversation between the two of them. In a sense, it makes Aziraphale seem human. He thought he was doing good, and yet, he was afraid that what he thought was a good deed may end up being bad. It's a constant struggle that we, as humans, deal with as well. Perhaps this is why it was believed best that humans did not know the difference between good and evil. Then we wouldn't be second-guessing our actions. I really am intrigued by Crawly and the fact that, as you said, he may not be the agent of evil he ought to be. I'm always one to try to see the good in everyone, and Crawly provides that little hope that there is good in everyone, that nobody is wholly evil, not even a servant of Evil.

I love these comments! This book is hysterical! I love how neither demon or angel want to see the world to end. And both demon and angel have human qualities. Which would then lead to, humans have both demonic and angelic tendencies. And I tend to think this is true. I really like this aspect to the novel, I can identify with both of them.

And all cassette tapes lead to "Queen". Got to love it!

"Good Omens" reminds me of another novel, "God Knows", Joseph Heller. It's hysterical too!

Bleach, I have read a few things by Gaiman, but this is my first read by Pratchett, would you say that the voice in the writing comes more from Pratchett? Gaiman does love pop culture, and can be funny as hell, but the wit in this novel does not sound like Gaiman to me. How do you think they collaborated together on this novel? Can you spot the contrabutions from each author?

bleachededen · Thu Jun 17, 2010 1:17 am


	Suzanne wrote: Bleach, I have read a few things by Gaiman, but this is my first read by Pratchett, would you say that the voice in the writing comes more from Pratchett? Gaiman does love pop culture, and can be funny as hell, but the wit in this novel does not sound like Gaiman to me. How do you think they collaborated together on this novel? Can you spot the contrabutions from each author?

Only just. I've never read anything by Pratchett, so all I know about how their contribution worked out is from reading their interviews and essays at the end of the book. I think it's fairly evenly spread, although things like the tapes turning into Queen and Heaven having horrible music definitely sound like Gaiman to me. The naming and repetition of those names also feels like Gaiman, and the way the supernatural forces react and interact also seems very much like Gaiman, to me.

I read an article online (which I believe I posted in one of the biography threads) that had them explaining that they each took a set of characters and wrote their parts, then switched characters and wrote theirs, so that both of them had written a bit of every character. I also believe it said that at first Gaiman took the Horseman and Pratchett took the Them, but in the end they decided that they couldn't really say exactly how much time each one had spent with which character and so on. So although I see what you're saying about the wit being a bit different, I still feel Gaiman's presence very heavily, which, of course, is a great thing, for me. I will say this book is a bit more "Britishy" than other Gaiman novels, a bit more like Douglas Adams than he usually is, and that is where I would say I can definitely see Terry Pratchett's involvement.

That's as close to an answer as I can give, and I suppose a fan of Terry Pratchett might say something completely different.

Let me know when you (everyone reading!) get to the Horsemen, as I think they're incredibly well handled, their personalities perfectly fitting modern society, and brilliantly sardonically hilarious, and I can't wait to hear what everyone else has to say about them!

Seraphim · Thu Jul 01, 2010 8:12 pm

Yes.....I'm running in here late after my out-of-town absence. I was wondering how they collaborated in this as well. I haven't read anything from either author, though I have been looking at a couple Gaiman novels to add to my to-do list, so I had nothing to compare to. Thanks for the explanation!

sade201030 · Sat Jul 03, 2010 12:56 pm

I've not found my old copy. I might buy a new one, hopefully a cheap one. Notice the dramtis personae at the beginning of the book-- In the beginning , the cast has been set for the play to begin and let the story march till the end. ( if there's any)

President Camacho · Sat Jul 17, 2010 6:48 pm


	Quote: I like that you suggest there is good in everyone, even in a demon like Crawly/Crowley (Aziraphale will agree with you ).

How would Az agree that there is good in a demon... I had the impression that he was the one who thought that because a demon IS evil their actions will be as such without there being a way to help it.

I enjoyed this first opening little hors d'oeuvre. It sets a good mood for the rest of story. The two main characters are introduced and the writing truly allows their personalities to shine through. You can tell that the two are good friends right from the start. Because of differences of opinion they've had to work at their relationship and have spent so much time together (an investment for both) that they have become more like family.

There is the noble but less witty Aziraphale and the less noble but humorous Crowley. Opposites do seem to attract and you can't have one without the other. It's suitable that these two are best friends. They possibly may not be able to exist if not for their counterpart.

There are many dynamic duos throughout literature like this. Rabelais' Pantagruel and Panurge come to mind. One noble and the other a wily and humorous rogue.

I also noticed the rain thing. How it hadn't been invented but a thunderstorm was approaching. I haven't read East of Eden and I don't think I caught the reference. I also noticed with a grin how Az was responsible for fire. Throughout the book I've found that angels and demons are responsible for a lot. I'm considering putting this book on my non-fiction shelf after I'm done with it.

Suzanne · Sat Jul 17, 2010 7:17 pm


	President Camacho wrote: There is the noble but less witty Aziraphale and the less noble but humorous Crowley. Opposites do seem to attract and you can't have one without the other. It's suitable that these two are best friends. They possibly may not be able to exist if not for their counterpart.

Opposite, or mirror image?

I enjoyed both of these characters. The friendship between the two propelled the book forward. Both angel and demon were able to display playfulness, and deception, both experienced horror and joy. To me, they were interchangable. Maybe I'm too grounded in human drama, but, you can't have good without bad. Joy cannot be appreciated without an understanding of sorrow. Ying, and Yang, both are required to make a human, angel, or demon whole.

"They possibly may not be able to exist if not for their counterpart". Amen!

President Camacho · Sat Jul 17, 2010 7:42 pm

You're right. They're more similar than dissimilar. I don't know where I was going with that. The book even states that their long interactions with humans have made them less and less like their former selves. They've become something in the middle of good and evil. Less constrained and more free. They've probably become more like each other - maybe similar to a married couple. They're very much alike but they do have differences....

They're the same person on different sides of the glass... you're right... they're mirror images. Very nice.

seespotrun2008 · Fri Aug 06, 2010 6:46 pm


	Quote: First off, I just have a silly comment to make on the fact that I found it highly amusing that the serpent's name was Crawly.

I think that is hilarious, too. The prologue is great.

I really like this line:

"They sat in embarrassed silence..."

That just seems so amusing, an angel and a demon sitting in "embarrassed silence". And the "animals freshly named".

I really like what they do with language. This is going to be a fun book. :lol:

lindad_amato · Fri Aug 06, 2010 6:57 pm

[they sat in embarrassed silence]

I liked that also. The relationship between them is further developed throughout the story. This is a fun book. I have finished it but would love to hear your thoughts as you go along.

lindad_amato · Fri Aug 06, 2010 6:58 pm

[quote: they sat in embarrassed silence]

I liked that also. The relationship between them is further developed throughout the story. This is a fun book. I have finished it but would love to hear your thoughts as you go along.

Forum rules

1. In The Beginning Tweet This Topic

Who is online

Chat Room Always Open!