http://www.bibleinschools.net

Mr. Pessimistic · Posted: Tue Feb 27, 2007 2:15 pm Post subject: http://www.bibleinschools.net

I see they are asserting that the "founding fathers" based our system of government on the bible.

::74

Mr. P.

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irishrosem · Posted: Tue Feb 27, 2007 4:37 pm Post subject: Re: http://www.bibleinschools.net

They’re trying to claim their approach to the Bible is a comparative religion approach to the Bible. I’m pretty skeptical. I’d love to glance at a copy of this text.

I’ve recently been doing a ton of reading on religion in schools (it stemmed from researching state laws that make Good Friday a state holiday), and I have to say the case law is pretty clear. Any instruction that includes moral lessons as part of any instruction on the Bible is unconstitutional. Also, because of the Courts’ sensitivity to how easily children can confuse establishment, and how the young are specifically vulnerable to indoctrination, I think it unlikely elementary schools will be able to include this in their curricula. Last it claims to have snared 373 school districts. Does anyone know if that is a lot? About how many school districts are there in this country? I have no idea, but 373 doesn’t sound like a majority to me.

Chris OConnor · Posted: Sat Mar 10, 2007 1:03 am Post subject: Re: http://www.bibleinschools.net

Here are the stats taken from then National Center for Education Statistics web site.

Quote:
In the 1999-2000 school year, there were 16,850 public school districts, 94,090 schools, and 47.7 million students in public education in the United States.

If 373 is an accurate number it is still pretty impressive as a proportion.

Chris OConnor · Posted: Sat Mar 10, 2007 1:15 am Post subject: Re: http://www.bibleinschools.net

This whole thing disgusts me. Read below the "President's Message:"

Quote:
Dear Friend,

A program is underway to serve the public through educational efforts concerning a First Amendment right and religious freedom issue. This is to bring a state certified Bible course (elective) into the public high schools nationwide.

The curriculum for the program shows a concern to convey the content of the Bible as compared to literature and history. The program is concerned with education rather than indoctrination of students. The central approach of the class is simply to study the Bible as a foundation document of society, and that approach is altogether appropriate in a comprehensive program of secular education.

The world is watching to see if we will be motivated to impact our culture, to deal with the moral crises in our society, and reclaim our families and children.

Please help us to restore our religious and civil liberties in this nation.

Elizabeth Ridenour
President NCBCPS

The middle paragraph attempts to convey the idea that this is all about education and not about sneaking some church into state affairs, but the final paragraph makes it clear that there is indeed an agdena.

Quote:
...to deal with the moral crises in our society, and reclaim our families and children.

How in the heck could studying the Bible academically address the moral crisis in our society? How could a comparative religion course reclaim our families and children? The reality is these people have a clear agenda and I'm exhausted from having to fight to expose it.

George Ricker · Posted: Sat Mar 10, 2007 2:54 pm Post subject: Re: http://www.bibleinschools.net

It should be possible to design a course dealing with the Bible as literature that would not involved proselytizing. However, there are some large caveats that need to be associated with it.

First of all, what Bible are we talking about? Most literary allusions, in the U.S. and probably England, refer to passages from the King James Bible. However, that is not the only translation. It is not even the best translation.

Second, most Christians would not want a strictly neutral approach applied to the Bible, because the teacher would be compelled to point out the flaws, the contradictions and so on. Familiarity with the Bible has led many people to reject the religion based on it.

Third, if we are seriously going to teach the Bible as literature, we have to begin by acknowledging that it's really not a single piece of literature but a rather large, loosely assembled collection of literary works of disputed authorship. Some of it is of high quality, most of it is fairly pedestrian and parts of it are very poorly written. Taken as a whole, it can hardly be regarded as great literature.

I do think it's important, because of its literary and historical significance, for people to have a passing familiarity with the Bible. However, I'm of the opinion that objective can be accomplished in courses on literature and history without creating a separate course to deal with the subject in isolation.

If such a course is proposed, then school districts must exercise extreme care in selecting appropriate instructional material and establishing criteria that will ensure the objectivity of the instructional staff who teach it.

Chris: How in the heck could studying the Bible academically address the moral crisis in our society? How could a comparative religion course reclaim our families and children? The reality is these people have a clear agenda and I'm exhausted from having to fight to expose it.

Of course they have an agenda. They always have. Our exhaustion is what they count on. Fortunately there do seem to be more of us paying attention these days.

My daughter, who is now in her forties, took a "Bible as literature" course back when she was in high school. The course was offered as an elective, and she thought it sounded interesting. When she got in the classroom though, she discovered the course was simply a teacher preaching her version of the "Good Book." When Lori asked questions, about the inconsistencies in the story of the creation in Genesis for example, she was told there were none there and she was just being "too" critical.

Now all of this happened back in the early 80s. I wasn't aware of it while it was going on because my daughter lived with her mother, and we had divorced. So I didn't learn about the course until after the fact. Since then, the course has been exposed for what it really is and is no longer being offered in that public high school.

It's also worth noting that, in my daughter's case at least, the course caused her to adopt a much more critical stance toward religions than she had previously taken. So whatever the aim of the organizers, I think it backfired in that instance.

George

"Godlessness is not about denying the existence of nonsensical beings. It is the starting point for living life without them."

Godless in America by George A. Ricker

Chris OConnor · Posted: Sat Mar 10, 2007 3:12 pm Post subject: Re: http://www.bibleinschools.net

Great post George. You've summed up the difficulties with having the Bible taught objectively in the public school system. And for these reasons I believe just about any attempt will be futile and a violation of church/state separation. The Bible, as a piece of literature and history, should remain as a college-level course where students elect to either take the course or not.

George Ricker

Thanks, Chris. I agree such courses are best offered as college-level electives. I don't trust the public high schools to be able to resist the pressures that would be brought to bear.

George

"Godlessness is not about denying the existence of nonsensical beings. It is the starting point for living life without them."

Godless in America by George A. Ricker


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