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How Christianity Ended the Tyranny of the Great Year and Freed Intellectual Investigation
- stahrwe
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Re: How Christianity Ended the Tyranny of the Great Year and Freed Intellectual Investigation
One need not be vulgar responding to the immature and uneducated. One may do what I do - ignore them.
n=Infinity
Sum n = -1/12
n=1
where n are natural numbers.
Sum n = -1/12
n=1
where n are natural numbers.
- DWill
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Re: How Christianity Ended the Tyranny of the Great Year and Freed Intellectual Investigation
I see a difference between what you did in that post and what I'm talking about. It's this type of thing that I mean, and that I just get tired of:johnson1010 wrote:i agree that dismissive and even hostile comments are occasionally called for.
Not to "shout someone down" as in to prevent their ability to express terrible and fraudulent ideas, but certainly to point out how terrible and fraudulent they are.
Not that i have anything particularly strong to say about the topic of this thread. But certainly when people say ridiculous things they must be exposed as ridiculous. And the more ridiculous, the more strongly i am likely to respond.
I've certainly done it when i thought it was needed.
http://www.booktalk.org/book-suggestion ... 15974.html
"but just invent malicious and stupid distortions based on your obsolete religious views.
stupid slogans,
appallingly offensive and stupid
completely crazy
semi-medieval propaganda
not something that will give you the intellectual equivalent of intestinal worms.
incredibly stupid and dangerous"
Robert, excuse me, but you accuse another of propaganda while using the language of propaganda yourself (at times). You accuse of ad hominem while doing so yourself. Merely labeling people or their arguments as stupid doesn't count as argument. Savage indignation can be well done (as Dr. Swift showed), but it isn't done with such blunt instruments. And why should "tactics" play a part when we're just here talking about things? I guess I'm also recommending lightening up.
- ant
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Re: How Christianity Ended the Tyranny of the Great Year and Freed Intellectual Investigation
As we are all accustomed to, DWill has expressed the above in his usual civil, cordial, and gentlemanly manner.Robert, excuse me, but you accuse another of propaganda while using the language of propaganda yourself (at times). You accuse of ad hominem while doing so yourself. Merely labeling people or their arguments as stupid doesn't count as argument. Savage indignation can be well done (as Dr. Swift showed), but it isn't done with such blunt instruments. And why should "tactics" play a part when we're just here talking about things? I guess I'm also recommending lightening up.
I am not without fault, but wholeheartedly agree with what's been expressed.
It IS in fact propaganda that's shamelessly tossed around. I've said this several times myself.
Last edited by ant on Wed Mar 26, 2014 6:18 pm, edited 2 times in total.
- Robert Tulip
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Re: How Christianity Ended the Tyranny of the Great Year and Freed Intellectual Investigation
This thread presents a study in various forms of propaganda, and in the need to put comments in context. DWill’s view that this is “just talking about things” neglects the extent to which such discussion is a serious matter.
For example, I said “Jaki's idea of a linear cosmology is incredibly stupid and dangerous, as it embeds the idea we are headed for destruction rather than renewal, and that this apocalyptic destruction is somehow the will of God.”
This is not an ad hominem criticism, but rather a specific analysis of how obsolete ideology is the sort of thing that leads to ships hitting icebergs, to use the Titanic as analogy. No one would say the captain of the Titanic should have ignored people calling him incredibly stupid and dangerous for his cavalier view about his indestructible ship.
Church propaganda does in fact present a linear path from Eden to Armageddon. Now some may see that as innocuous and safe, but I don’t. DWill sees "nothing to be afraid of" in the promotion of catholic fantasy, whereas my view is that a transformation of Christianity is rather urgently needed to reconcile it with science.
http://thepropagandaproject.wordpress.c ... ropaganda/ explains that propaganda comes in shades of white, black, and gray. White propaganda is honest and transparent persuasion, while black propaganda is credited to a false source and spreads lies, fabrications, and deception. Gray propaganda is somewhere in between, with dubious sourcing and accuracy.
I submit that my persuasion efforts here are a much lighter shade than those of the original propagandists, the Roman Church, and of their advocates here who have spread disinformation about themes such as tyranny, communism, science and atheism. For information on the great inspirers of Dr Goebbels see the Sacred Congregation of Propaganda http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/12456a.htm.
Of the provocative comments I have made in this thread in response to the Catholic disinformation campaign, I don’t think any are untrue, unfair or ad hominem when read in context. There is something ‘semi-medieval’ about Mariolatry, and about the author’s argument that "...the Catholic Church has a legitimate right and authority to veto scientific conclusions which directly contradict divinely revealed dogma." My comment about worms was essentially a book review, and is fair comment. It really is that bad.
My comments about malice were in response to such gems from ant as “the arguments presented by the resident atheists are not for the goal of truth”, his calling me an “atheist communist” who apparently wants to ban and burn all books with a religious slant, and his opening line about “atheists that have more than one brain cell”. Now poor ant is talking about being “civil, cordial, and gentlemanly”, having clumsily tried to stuff his bloody mace back in its scabbard.
For example, I said “Jaki's idea of a linear cosmology is incredibly stupid and dangerous, as it embeds the idea we are headed for destruction rather than renewal, and that this apocalyptic destruction is somehow the will of God.”
This is not an ad hominem criticism, but rather a specific analysis of how obsolete ideology is the sort of thing that leads to ships hitting icebergs, to use the Titanic as analogy. No one would say the captain of the Titanic should have ignored people calling him incredibly stupid and dangerous for his cavalier view about his indestructible ship.
Church propaganda does in fact present a linear path from Eden to Armageddon. Now some may see that as innocuous and safe, but I don’t. DWill sees "nothing to be afraid of" in the promotion of catholic fantasy, whereas my view is that a transformation of Christianity is rather urgently needed to reconcile it with science.
http://thepropagandaproject.wordpress.c ... ropaganda/ explains that propaganda comes in shades of white, black, and gray. White propaganda is honest and transparent persuasion, while black propaganda is credited to a false source and spreads lies, fabrications, and deception. Gray propaganda is somewhere in between, with dubious sourcing and accuracy.
I submit that my persuasion efforts here are a much lighter shade than those of the original propagandists, the Roman Church, and of their advocates here who have spread disinformation about themes such as tyranny, communism, science and atheism. For information on the great inspirers of Dr Goebbels see the Sacred Congregation of Propaganda http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/12456a.htm.
Of the provocative comments I have made in this thread in response to the Catholic disinformation campaign, I don’t think any are untrue, unfair or ad hominem when read in context. There is something ‘semi-medieval’ about Mariolatry, and about the author’s argument that "...the Catholic Church has a legitimate right and authority to veto scientific conclusions which directly contradict divinely revealed dogma." My comment about worms was essentially a book review, and is fair comment. It really is that bad.
My comments about malice were in response to such gems from ant as “the arguments presented by the resident atheists are not for the goal of truth”, his calling me an “atheist communist” who apparently wants to ban and burn all books with a religious slant, and his opening line about “atheists that have more than one brain cell”. Now poor ant is talking about being “civil, cordial, and gentlemanly”, having clumsily tried to stuff his bloody mace back in its scabbard.
- Chris OConnor
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Re: How Christianity Ended the Tyranny of the Great Year and Freed Intellectual Investigation
Should this thread be moved into the new forum for "Science Was Born of Christianity: The Teaching of Fr. Stanley L. Jaki - by Stacy Trasancos"?
- ant
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Re: How Christianity Ended the Tyranny of the Great Year and Freed Intellectual Investigation
from the OP to many of the replies this thread deals with the book
this from the OP
so i would say it belongs in the forum dedicated to the book.
but perhaps there are good reasons for leaving it in the wild as well.
ahem...
oh Lord, Thou who knowest where the thread should go
please guide our beloved administrator as he attempts to solve this sensibly.
let us not depend on the "arm of flesh" or "carnal reasoning"
let us not stray to Satan's domain
just help Chris know where thou wouldst have the thread
we ask in the name above all names, the mighty name of Krishna... oh shit wrong deity, thou knowest i meant Jesus not Krishna oh Lord...
what's that Lord? "six of one half a dozen of the other"
Lord, art thou also a heretic?
and if LanDroid should post "Yes" in the reply after next then know assuredly that I the Lord have posted it for a sign to you of my most holy desire. (damn you edit tag )
this from the OP
also many of the posts deal with the book directlyFOREWORD
I warmly recommend this book written by Stacy Trasancos on the Christian basis and inspiration for the birth of modern science according to Fr. Stanley Jaki OSB, the great philosopher of science and theologian, member of the Pontifical Academy of Sciences and Templeton prize-winner. The author has made a great effort and has succeeded in making Fr. Jaki’s ideas available to a larger public. Her goal is to inform more people about what Fr. Jaki actually meant by this claim that Christianity stimulated the birth of science because it is significant for people (young adults especially) to understand that faith and science are not opposed, and are indeed complementary.
so i would say it belongs in the forum dedicated to the book.
but perhaps there are good reasons for leaving it in the wild as well.
ahem...
oh Lord, Thou who knowest where the thread should go
please guide our beloved administrator as he attempts to solve this sensibly.
let us not depend on the "arm of flesh" or "carnal reasoning"
let us not stray to Satan's domain
just help Chris know where thou wouldst have the thread
we ask in the name above all names, the mighty name of Krishna... oh shit wrong deity, thou knowest i meant Jesus not Krishna oh Lord...
what's that Lord? "six of one half a dozen of the other"
Lord, art thou also a heretic?
and if LanDroid should post "Yes" in the reply after next then know assuredly that I the Lord have posted it for a sign to you of my most holy desire. (damn you edit tag )
Last edited by youkrst on Fri Mar 28, 2014 4:56 am, edited 3 times in total.
- Robert Tulip
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Re: How Christianity Ended the Tyranny of the Great Year and Freed Intellectual Investigation
Yes please.Chris OConnor wrote:Should this thread be moved into the new forum for "Science Was Born of Christianity: The Teaching of Fr. Stanley L. Jaki - by Stacy Trasancos"?
- LanDroid
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Re: How Christianity Ended the Tyranny of the Great Year and Freed Intellectual Investigation
In answer to youkrst's prayer, Yes.
- Chris OConnor
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Re: How Christianity Ended the Tyranny of the Great Year and Freed Intellectual Investigation
OK, I'll move it in there now.