http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/20 ... 085105.htm
I recall a debate in which a scientist and his following laughed at Stuart H explain his theory.
Amazing
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Evidence for once controversial theory of Consciousness
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- ant
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Evidence for once controversial theory of Consciousness
Last edited by ant on Fri Jan 17, 2014 10:28 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Evidence for once controversial theory of Consciousness
I guess we'll see if the paradigm shifts...
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Re: Evidence for once controversial theory of Consciousness
I don't see why further complexity is needed to understand consciousness. Aren't neurons enough to produce such an emergent phenomenon? I would think it's as simple as that, with the complexity being in the arrangement.
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Re: Evidence for once controversial theory of Consciousness
god forbid we discover an incorporeal element of consciouness
lets be satisfied with partial explanatory power here
long live the paradigm!!
lets be satisfied with partial explanatory power here
long live the paradigm!!
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Re: Evidence for once controversial theory of Consciousness
I see the same issue with microtubules. Consciousness is still an emergent phenomenon. What we can't explain, due to the complexity, is how the individual neurons collectively result in consciousness. How does the rival theory provide any insight? I saw nothing that explained how quantum vibrations within microtubules results in consciousness. In both cases it's an emergent phenomenon.lets be satisfied with partial explanatory power here
Incorporeal? Why did you use that word? Physics is at play in both cases, as far as I can tell. I have no resistance to the idea of quantum vibrations, other than it doesn't seem necessary. Ockham's razor. But I know so little about it that it's just layman opinion.god forbid we discover an incorporeal element of consciouness
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Re: Evidence for once controversial theory of Consciousness
to be sure, there's nothing incorporeal about quantum mechanics.
Quantum mechanics IS what the world is made of. Everything from the solidity of matter, to fire, to the colors we see in everyday objects is a quantum effect.
People tend to only associate quantum mechanics with the more bizare things that we aren't accustomed to dealing with, like antimatter creation/annihilation, or electron spin, or quantum tunneling, but the fact that your pants are blue is also a quantum effect.
Quantum mechanics IS what the world is made of. Everything from the solidity of matter, to fire, to the colors we see in everyday objects is a quantum effect.
People tend to only associate quantum mechanics with the more bizare things that we aren't accustomed to dealing with, like antimatter creation/annihilation, or electron spin, or quantum tunneling, but the fact that your pants are blue is also a quantum effect.
In the absence of God, I found Man.
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Are you pushing your own short comings on us and safely hating them from a distance?
Is this the virtue of faith? To never change your mind: especially when you should?
Young Earth Creationists take offense at the idea that we have a common heritage with other animals. Why is being the descendant of a mud golem any better?
-Guillermo Del Torro
Are you pushing your own short comings on us and safely hating them from a distance?
Is this the virtue of faith? To never change your mind: especially when you should?
Young Earth Creationists take offense at the idea that we have a common heritage with other animals. Why is being the descendant of a mud golem any better?
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Re: Evidence for once controversial theory of Consciousness
thisincorporeal? Why did you use that word? Physics is at play in both cases, as far as I can tell. I have no resistance to the idea of quantum vibrations, other than it doesn't seem necessary. Ockham's razor. But I know so little about it that it's just layman opinion.
http://phys.org/news/2013-07-flat-worms ... ation.html
and this..,
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holonomic_brain_theory
may have a relationship.
in early stages of course but if the brain acts as both a receiver and stores non locally, it will give cause to rethink our current paradigm.
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Re: Evidence for once controversial theory of Consciousness
Both of those links imply mechanisms that are corporeal, natural, and subject to the laws of physics.
You'll have to explain in layman's terms what it means for storage to be non-local. Is that the same thing as distributed storage? How is that different from the current understanding of how we store information?
You'll have to explain in layman's terms what it means for storage to be non-local. Is that the same thing as distributed storage? How is that different from the current understanding of how we store information?
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Re: Evidence for once controversial theory of Consciousness
Interbane wrote:Both of those links imply mechanisms that are corporeal, natural, and subject to the laws of physics.
You'll have to explain in layman's terms what it means for storage to be non-local. Is that the same thing as distributed storage? How is that different from the current understanding of how we store information?
Innocent question here:
If memory/consciousness is stored in both a local and non-local states (as hypothesized) how are you attributing the non locality of consciousness to the brain?
Remember, it may be both (ie the double slit experiment).
Are the laws of quantum physics subject to the laws of physics that govern large material bodies (not just human bodies)?
I'd think if quantum laws (which we have, to my knowledge, not defined with certainty) are involved in consciousness, it's rather premature to speak with certainty that they are strictly governed by physical laws as we understand them in relation to matter.
Also, where was memory stored in the flatworm? In it's tail?
Has memory storage in the brain been located? That's not to say it won't be. Nevertheless, the wiki article is an interesting conjecture.
Clarify your thinking for me on this, please. I know we are both armatures here.
BTW,
Have you read the wiki article yet?
Interesting stuff.
Thanks
Last edited by ant on Thu Jan 30, 2014 4:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Evidence for once controversial theory of Consciousness
I don't see how information can be stored in what is considered a "local" manner. Across all different mediums that information is stored on or within, the storage is more or less distributed, depending on how much information there is. It's not as if "bits" are stored within neurons. It is the configuration and strength of dendritic connections that determines the information, which is necessarily distributed.If memory/consciousness is stored in both a local and non-local states (as hypothesized) how are you attributing the non locality of consciousness to the brain?
Remember, it may be both (ie the double slit experiment).
I think attempts to find consciousness anywhere else than in the aggregate activity of neurons is missing the forest for the trees. In only a very rough comparison, we know that information can be stored by the aggregate of simply functioning independent parts - transistors. Hypothesizing additional mechanisms does nothing in helping us unravel the real issue, which is how the sum of neurons leads to the emergent phenomenon of consciousness.
The tendency to avoid or not avoid light could be explained by phenotypic plasticity, no neurons required.Also, where was memory stored in the flatworm? In it's tail?
Has memory storage in the brain been located?
Short term memory in the brain is stored in the pre-frontal lobe. Long term memory is somewhere else, but I couldn't tell you without googling it. Why?
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