Online reading group and book discussion forum
  HOME FORUMS BOOKS LINKS DONATE ADVERTISE CONTACT  
View unanswered posts | View active topics It is currently Thu Oct 23, 2014 1:32 pm




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 14 posts ] • Topic evaluate: Evaluations: 0, 0.00 on the average.Evaluations: 0, 0.00 on the average.Evaluations: 0, 0.00 on the average.Evaluations: 0, 0.00 on the average.Evaluations: 0, 0.00 on the average. 
Ender's Character 
Author Message
User avatar
Years of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membership
Professor

Silver Contributor

Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 3542
Location: NJ
Thanks: 1
Thanked: 5 times in 5 posts
Gender: Male
Country: United States (us)

Post Ender's Character
So what are we to make of Ender Wiggin? He is a genius obviously. He is a child. He is easily manipulated by those around him in almost every respect. He is an unsurpassed tactician, except where it counts...and that is as it applies to his own self interest and will.

Peter controled him through fear, Valentine through love. The military controlled him by pride, challenging him by cheating and lying until Ender 'showed them up' by beating them (which as we see is actually beating himself) at the games (which turn out to be the biggest lie). Dink (was that the character) alluded to all of this midway through the book when he tells ender that it is not the buggers and there is no war. It is the adults. They lie.

So what are we to make of Ender? Should we honor him like they do on earth after he kills a civilization? Should we despise him for being a dupe? Should we pity him for being a dupe? Should we respect him fro realizing he was controled his whole life and for understanding at the end that he could rectify everything by now becoming a champion and future hope for the buggers?

Just a few thoughts.

Mr. P.

The one thing of which I am positive is that there is much of which to be negative - Mr. P.

Once you perceive the irrevocable truth, you can no longer justify the irrational denial. - Mr. P.

The pain in hell has two sides. The kind you can touch with your hand; the kind you can feel in your heart...Scorsese's "Mean Streets"

I came to kick ass and chew Bubble Gum...and I am all out of Bubble Gum - They Live, Roddy Piper




Tue Apr 25, 2006 3:58 pm
Profile YIM WWW


Post Re: Ender's Character
I think Ender was a born leader -- more so than the other battle school kids. He was influenced by those around him (let's not forget how young he was), but he usually found a way to come out on top, respected by most of his peers. The devotion he earned was more important than his flaws, making him stand out against his runners-up (Petra and Bean, specifically). I forgive him for most of his flaws because of his age.

"Work like you don't need the money. Love like you've never been hurt. Dance like nobody is watching." -- Keller Williams




Sat Apr 29, 2006 12:27 pm
User avatar
Years of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membership
Professor

Silver Contributor

Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 3542
Location: NJ
Thanks: 1
Thanked: 5 times in 5 posts
Gender: Male
Country: United States (us)

Post Re: Ender's Character
Yes. He was young...but he was duped and controlled. I wonder ho Ender would have performed if he thought it was all real. As it is in the story..he always thinks he is playing.

Was Ender just a tool, rather than a leader. Remember, these kids were bred to become potential leaders...so in this light, Ender seems to be more of a tool, and the adults are the actual leaders.

Mr. P.

The one thing of which I am positive is that there is much of which to be negative - Mr. P.

Once you perceive the irrevocable truth, you can no longer justify the irrational denial. - Mr. P.

The pain in hell has two sides. The kind you can touch with your hand; the kind you can feel in your heart...Scorsese's "Mean Streets"

I came to kick ass and chew Bubble Gum...and I am all out of Bubble Gum - They Live, Roddy Piper

Edited by: misterpessimistic  at: 4/29/06 4:11 pm



Sat Apr 29, 2006 3:06 pm
Profile YIM WWW
User avatar
Years of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membership
Senior


Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 373
Location: Ashland, NH
Thanks: 0
Thanked: 0 time in 0 post
Gender: None specified

Post Re: Ender's Character
Ender is definitely a tool. The leaders never tell Ender the truth right up until the end. But what are his other choices as a third? Walk away in shame? Shame of both Peter and his parents, shame of any one that knows he would purposefully walk away from the purpose for which he was bred for. Shame of any one knowing he was a third. Ender didn't even have a choice to quit, but I suspect he might have left the fight school if he knew what the leaders knew.




Sat Apr 29, 2006 5:30 pm
Profile YIM
User avatar
Years of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membership
Professor

Silver Contributor

Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 3542
Location: NJ
Thanks: 1
Thanked: 5 times in 5 posts
Gender: Male
Country: United States (us)

Post Re: Ender's Character
Even Valentine manipulates and controls Ender, as we see her importance in keeping him focused on his training and talking him into not quitting.

Funny...the strongest leader in the story is probably Peter...the character we are supposed to hate the most. HE orchestrated his own take over of world politics. Ender wanted to be everybody's friend, and it seems a good leader cannot do that.

Maybe Ender is the ultimate humanitarian, as he carries around the egg sack of the dead queen looking to revive the life he destroyed. Maybe he was or will be a great moral leader, but was lead astray by those he trusted (Valentine, Rackham and Graff.

Valentine would not even let Ender return to Earth, for fear that Peter would continue to use Ender. But even with this, we see that Ender really has no control over his own desires or fate.

Mr. P.

The one thing of which I am positive is that there is much of which to be negative - Mr. P.

Once you perceive the irrevocable truth, you can no longer justify the irrational denial. - Mr. P.

The pain in hell has two sides. The kind you can touch with your hand; the kind you can feel in your heart...Scorsese's "Mean Streets"

I came to kick ass and chew Bubble Gum...and I am all out of Bubble Gum - They Live, Roddy Piper

Edited by: misterpessimistic  at: 5/1/06 1:15 pm



Mon May 01, 2006 10:13 am
Profile YIM WWW
User avatar
Years of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membership
Senior


Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 373
Location: Ashland, NH
Thanks: 0
Thanked: 0 time in 0 post
Gender: None specified

Post Re: Ender's Character
Quote:
Even Valentine manipulates and controls Ender, as we see her importance in keeping him focused on his training and talking him into not quitting.

but she is manipulated into doing so by the battle school leaders...




Mon May 01, 2006 4:56 pm
Profile YIM
User avatar
Years of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membership
Senior


Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 373
Location: Ashland, NH
Thanks: 0
Thanked: 0 time in 0 post
Gender: None specified

Post Re: Ender's Character
Quote:
Funny...the strongest leader in the story is probably Peter...the character we are supposed to hate the most. HE orchestrated his own take over of world politics. Ender wanted to be everybody's friend, and it seems a good leader cannot do that.

i see this differently as well. ender might have wanted to be someone's friend, but his only friend is valentine. throughout the story, ender is isolated intentionally by the battle school leaders, but the actions of the leaders, and by the situations and resulting decisions ender finds himself making. i don't think ender wanted to be everybody's friend, his decisions certainly did not support this point of view, he was resigned to not having friends. this was the MO of the battle school leaders so that ender would not care about sending someone to their death.




Mon May 01, 2006 4:59 pm
Profile YIM
User avatar
Years of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membership
Professor

Silver Contributor

Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 3542
Location: NJ
Thanks: 1
Thanked: 5 times in 5 posts
Gender: Male
Country: United States (us)

Post Re: Ender's Character
Quote:
i don't think ender wanted to be everybody's friend, his decisions certainly did not support this point of view


I see your point RivercOil, but what I am saying is that Ender desired friendship, not that he expected or saw it as possible. This probably stems from his desire to have Peter love him (which Peter does...as we saw in the scene where he thought Ender was sleeping). Ender desires a sense of normal, as we define it, human companionship, which he also realizes he will never have.

His interaction with Alai and {the girl in the battle school} and Mazer and Graff show his desire for friendship and not the militaristic chain of command which is all he has. He does have Valentine's love and friendship...but he wants more.

I feel he has bonded more with the Buggers than anyone else in the story...and they are all dead now...because of him.

Peter is the defining conflict in this story as far as Ender's own person is concerned, for Peter is his failings...his weakness...his inability...all reflected in a mirror of himself.

Mr. P.

The one thing of which I am positive is that there is much of which to be negative - Mr. P.

Once you perceive the irrevocable truth, you can no longer justify the irrational denial. - Mr. P.

The pain in hell has two sides. The kind you can touch with your hand; the kind you can feel in your heart...Scorsese's "Mean Streets"

I came to kick ass and chew Bubble Gum...and I am all out of Bubble Gum - They Live, Roddy Piper




Tue May 02, 2006 2:51 pm
Profile YIM WWW
User avatar
Years of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membership
Senior


Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 373
Location: Ashland, NH
Thanks: 0
Thanked: 0 time in 0 post
Gender: None specified

Post Re: Ender's Character
Yes, I definitely see Ender as wanting to have the normal relationships that he could not have. He realized certain actions he made would negatively effect the chances of those relationships, but often felt he didn't have much choice in pushing people away. I do not quite see Peter being a conflict, Peter seems like a non-issue to Ender. I do not recall Ender having extensive conflict except that he kept thinking that he was not like Peter, and he definitely was not. Every person Ender hurt was a conflict essentially forced upon him, possibly with the exception of the first conflict in which Ender decided to put a stop to being teased forever... perhaps ironically the defining moment that set the future stage as Ender would not have gone to battleschool if he couldn't fend for himself.




Tue May 02, 2006 5:45 pm
Profile YIM


Post Re: Ender's Character
Quote:
Was Ender just a tool, rather than a leader.

I think he can be both a tool and a leader.

***************
The Gimp Parade




Mon May 08, 2006 7:57 pm
User avatar
Years of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membership
Professor

Silver Contributor

Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 3542
Location: NJ
Thanks: 1
Thanked: 5 times in 5 posts
Gender: Male
Country: United States (us)

Post Re: Ender's Character
I do not see how that can be. I mean...if you are a tool, others are 'leading' you in what you do.

Maybe you can expand a bit to help us see what you mean?

Mr. P.

The one thing of which I am positive is that there is much of which to be negative - Mr. P.

Once you perceive the irrevocable truth, you can no longer justify the irrational denial. - Mr. P.

The pain in hell has two sides. The kind you can touch with your hand; the kind you can feel in your heart...Scorsese's "Mean Streets"

I came to kick ass and chew Bubble Gum...and I am all out of Bubble Gum - They Live, Roddy Piper




Tue May 09, 2006 8:13 am
Profile YIM WWW
User avatar
Years of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membership
Pop up Book Fanatic


Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 12
Thanks: 2
Thanked: 4 times in 3 posts
Gender: Female
Country: Canada (ca)

Post Re: Ender's Character
Is it not fair to say that Ender is the middle in a power struggle between Good ( Valentine) and Evil ( Peter). He may be a tool but in the purest sense of the word. Ender was a "tool" or means to an end. If you take the concepts of good and evil even further Ender would be, or have the capacity to be representative of the general public. The fact that he was not aware of the great plot only makes him more like the general public who was also fed the same propaganda. I have always chosen to believe that Ender did what anyone would do given the circumstances, as evidenced by his guilt he exemplified the basic needs of the human being, seeking acceptance, friendship, and comfort.



The following user would like to thank Magdalene for this post:
Chris OConnor, Interbane
Wed Mar 23, 2011 10:06 pm
Profile Email
Official Newbie!


Joined: Jan 2014
Posts: 1
Thanks: 0
Thanked: 0 time in 0 post
Gender: None specified

Post Re: Ender's Character
I personal agree to some of Enders actions. If you are in a situation were you have to fight and it could happen again and they are trying to hurt you, it is human instinct to fight back. If I was in those situation I would fight back and try to make it so they could not attack me again but if there was a way to by pass the fight I would take it.



Mon Jan 27, 2014 3:00 pm
Profile Email
Getting Comfortable


Joined: Jan 2014
Posts: 8
Thanks: 0
Thanked: 2 times in 2 posts
Gender: None specified

Post Re: Ender's Character
I think everyone has a choice as well as the character Ender Wiggin, the decision is in his hands to do good or to do evil.

Image



Fri Jan 31, 2014 6:51 am
Profile Email
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 14 posts ] • Topic evaluate: Evaluations: 0, 0.00 on the average.Evaluations: 0, 0.00 on the average.Evaluations: 0, 0.00 on the average.Evaluations: 0, 0.00 on the average.Evaluations: 0, 0.00 on the average. 



Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 0 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:


BookTalk.org Links 
Forum Rules & Tips
Frequently Asked Questions
BBCode Explained
Info for Authors & Publishers
Featured Book Suggestions
Author Interview Transcripts
Be a Book Discussion Leader!
    

Love to talk about books but don't have time for our book discussion forums? For casual book talk join us on Facebook.

Featured Books

Books by New Authors



Booktalk.org on Facebook 



BookTalk.org is a free book discussion group or online reading group or book club. We read and talk about both fiction and non-fiction books as a group. We host live author chats where booktalk members can interact with and interview authors. We give away free books to our members in book giveaway contests. Our booktalks are open to everybody who enjoys talking about books. Our book forums include book reviews, author interviews and book resources for readers and book lovers. Discussing books is our passion. We're a literature forum, or reading forum. Register a free book club account today! Suggest nonfiction and fiction books. Authors and publishers are welcome to advertise their books or ask for an author chat or author interview.


Navigation 
MAIN NAVIGATION

HOMEFORUMSBOOKSTRANSCRIPTSOLD FORUMSADVERTISELINKSFAQDONATETERMS OF USEPRIVACY POLICY

BOOK FORUMS FOR ALL BOOKS WE HAVE DISCUSSED
Sense and Goodness Without God - by Richard CarrierFrankenstein - by Mary ShelleyThe Big Questions - by Simon BlackburnScience Was Born of Christianity - by Stacy TrasancosThe Happiness Hypothesis - by Jonathan HaidtA Game of Thrones - by George R. R. MartinTempesta's Dream - by Vincent LoCocoWhy Nations Fail - by Daron Acemoglu and James RobinsonThe Drowning Girl - Caitlin R. KiernanThe Consolations of the Forest - by Sylvain TessonThe Complete Heretic's Guide to Western Religion: The Mormons - by David FitzgeraldA Portrait of the Artist as a Young Man - by James JoyceThe Divine Comedy - by Dante AlighieriThe Magic of Reality - by Richard DawkinsDubliners - by James JoyceMy Name Is Red - by Orhan PamukThe World Until Yesterday - by Jared DiamondThe Man Who Was Thursday - by by G. K. ChestertonThe Better Angels of Our Nature by Steven PinkerLord Jim by Joseph ConradThe Hobbit by J. R. R. TolkienThe Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy by Douglas AdamsAtlas Shrugged by Ayn RandThinking, Fast and Slow - by Daniel KahnemanThe Righteous Mind - by Jonathan HaidtWorld War Z: An Oral History of the Zombie War by Max BrooksMoby Dick: or, the Whale by Herman MelvilleA Visit from the Goon Squad by Jennifer EganLost Memory of Skin: A Novel by Russell BanksThe Structure of Scientific Revolutions by Thomas S. KuhnHobbes: Leviathan by Thomas HobbesThe House of the Spirits - by Isabel AllendeArguably: Essays by Christopher HitchensThe Falls: A Novel (P.S.) by Joyce Carol OatesChrist in Egypt by D.M. MurdockThe Glass Bead Game: A Novel by Hermann HesseA Devil's Chaplain by Richard DawkinsThe Hero with a Thousand Faces by Joseph CampbellThe Brothers Karamazov by Fyodor DostoyevskyThe Adventures of Huckleberry Finn by Mark TwainThe Moral Landscape by Sam HarrisThe Decameron by Giovanni BoccaccioThe Road by Cormac McCarthyThe Grand Design by Stephen HawkingThe Evolution of God by Robert WrightThe Tin Drum by Gunter GrassGood Omens by Neil GaimanPredictably Irrational by Dan ArielyThe Wind-Up Bird Chronicle: A Novel by Haruki MurakamiALONE: Orphaned on the Ocean by Richard Logan & Tere Duperrault FassbenderDon Quixote by Miguel De CervantesMusicophilia by Oliver SacksDiary of a Madman and Other Stories by Nikolai GogolThe Passion of the Western Mind by Richard TarnasThe Left Hand of Darkness by Ursula K. Le GuinThe Genius of the Beast by Howard BloomAlice's Adventures in Wonderland by Lewis Carroll Empire of Illusion by Chris HedgesThe Sound and the Fury by William Faulkner The Extended Phenotype by Richard DawkinsSmoke and Mirrors by Neil GaimanThe Selfish Gene by Richard DawkinsWhen Good Thinking Goes Bad by Todd C. RinioloHouse of Leaves by Mark Z. DanielewskiAmerican Gods: A Novel by Neil GaimanPrimates and Philosophers by Frans de WaalThe Enormous Room by E.E. CummingsThe Picture of Dorian Gray by Oscar WildeGod Is Not Great: How Religion Poisons Everything by Christopher HitchensThe Name of the Rose by Umberto Eco Dreams From My Father by Barack Obama Paradise Lost by John Milton Bad Money by Kevin PhillipsThe Secret Garden by Frances Hodgson BurnettGodless: How an Evangelical Preacher Became One of America's Leading Atheists by Dan BarkerThe Things They Carried by Tim O'BrienThe Limits of Power by Andrew BacevichLolita by Vladimir NabokovOrlando by Virginia Woolf On Being Certain by Robert A. Burton50 reasons people give for believing in a god by Guy P. HarrisonWalden: Or, Life in the Woods by Henry David ThoreauExile and the Kingdom by Albert CamusOur Inner Ape by Frans de WaalYour Inner Fish by Neil ShubinNo Country for Old Men by Cormac McCarthyThe Age of American Unreason by Susan JacobyTen Theories of Human Nature by Leslie Stevenson & David HabermanHeart of Darkness by Joseph ConradThe Stuff of Thought by Stephen PinkerA Thousand Splendid Suns by Khaled HosseiniThe Lucifer Effect by Philip ZimbardoResponsibility and Judgment by Hannah ArendtInterventions by Noam ChomskyGodless in America by George A. RickerReligious Expression and the American Constitution by Franklyn S. HaimanDeep Economy by Phil McKibbenThe God Delusion by Richard DawkinsThe Third Chimpanzee by Jared DiamondThe Woman in the Dunes by Abe KoboEvolution vs. Creationism by Eugenie C. ScottThe Omnivore's Dilemma by Michael PollanI, Claudius by Robert GravesBreaking The Spell by Daniel C. DennettA Peace to End All Peace by David FromkinThe Time Traveler's Wife by Audrey NiffeneggerThe End of Faith by Sam HarrisEnder's Game by Orson Scott CardThe Curious Incident of the Dog in the Night-Time by Mark HaddonValue and Virtue in a Godless Universe by Erik J. WielenbergThe March by E. L DoctorowThe Ethical Brain by Michael GazzanigaFreethinkers: A History of American Secularism by Susan JacobyCollapse: How Societies Choose to Fail or Succeed by Jared DiamondThe Battle for God by Karen ArmstrongThe Future of Life by Edward O. WilsonWhat is Good? by A. C. GraylingCivilization and Its Enemies by Lee HarrisPale Blue Dot by Carl SaganHow We Believe: Science, Skepticism, and the Search for God by Michael ShermerLooking for Spinoza by Antonio DamasioLies and the Lying Liars Who Tell Them by Al FrankenThe Red Queen by Matt RidleyThe Blank Slate by Stephen PinkerUnweaving the Rainbow by Richard DawkinsAtheism: A Reader edited by S.T. JoshiGlobal Brain by Howard BloomThe Lucifer Principle by Howard BloomGuns, Germs and Steel by Jared DiamondThe Demon-Haunted World by Carl SaganBury My Heart at Wounded Knee by Dee BrownFuture Shock by Alvin Toffler

OTHER PAGES WORTH EXPLORING
Banned Book ListOur Amazon.com SalesMassimo Pigliucci Rationally SpeakingOnline Reading GroupTop 10 Atheism BooksFACTS Book Selections

Copyright © BookTalk.org 2002-2014. All rights reserved.
Website developed by MidnightCoder.ca
Display Pagerank