Joined: Jun 2004 Posts: 3552 Location: NJ
Thanks: 1 Thanked: 5 times in 5 posts
Gender: Country:
Ender's Character
So what are we to make of Ender Wiggin? He is a genius obviously. He is a child. He is easily manipulated by those around him in almost every respect. He is an unsurpassed tactician, except where it counts...and that is as it applies to his own self interest and will.
Peter controled him through fear, Valentine through love. The military controlled him by pride, challenging him by cheating and lying until Ender 'showed them up' by beating them (which as we see is actually beating himself) at the games (which turn out to be the biggest lie). Dink (was that the character) alluded to all of this midway through the book when he tells ender that it is not the buggers and there is no war. It is the adults. They lie.
So what are we to make of Ender? Should we honor him like they do on earth after he kills a civilization? Should we despise him for being a dupe? Should we pity him for being a dupe? Should we respect him fro realizing he was controled his whole life and for understanding at the end that he could rectify everything by now becoming a champion and future hope for the buggers?
Just a few thoughts.
Mr. P.
The one thing of which I am positive is that there is much of which to be negative - Mr. P.
Once you perceive the irrevocable truth, you can no longer justify the irrational denial. - Mr. P.
The pain in hell has two sides. The kind you can touch with your hand; the kind you can feel in your heart...Scorsese's "Mean Streets"
I came to kick ass and chew Bubble Gum...and I am all out of Bubble Gum - They Live, Roddy Piper
Joined: Jul 2004 Posts: 50
Thanks: 0 Thanked: 0 time in 0 post
Gender:
Re: Ender's Character
I think Ender was a born leader -- more so than the other battle school kids. He was influenced by those around him (let's not forget how young he was), but he usually found a way to come out on top, respected by most of his peers. The devotion he earned was more important than his flaws, making him stand out against his runners-up (Petra and Bean, specifically). I forgive him for most of his flaws because of his age.
"Work like you don't need the money. Love like you've never been hurt. Dance like nobody is watching." -- Keller Williams
Joined: Jun 2004 Posts: 3552 Location: NJ
Thanks: 1 Thanked: 5 times in 5 posts
Gender: Country:
Re: Ender's Character
Yes. He was young...but he was duped and controlled. I wonder ho Ender would have performed if he thought it was all real. As it is in the story..he always thinks he is playing.
Was Ender just a tool, rather than a leader. Remember, these kids were bred to become potential leaders...so in this light, Ender seems to be more of a tool, and the adults are the actual leaders.
Mr. P.
The one thing of which I am positive is that there is much of which to be negative - Mr. P.
Once you perceive the irrevocable truth, you can no longer justify the irrational denial. - Mr. P.
The pain in hell has two sides. The kind you can touch with your hand; the kind you can feel in your heart...Scorsese's "Mean Streets"
I came to kick ass and chew Bubble Gum...and I am all out of Bubble Gum - They Live, Roddy Piper
Joined: Dec 2005 Posts: 374 Location: Ashland, NH
Thanks: 0 Thanked: 0 time in 0 post
Gender:
Re: Ender's Character
Ender is definitely a tool. The leaders never tell Ender the truth right up until the end. But what are his other choices as a third? Walk away in shame? Shame of both Peter and his parents, shame of any one that knows he would purposefully walk away from the purpose for which he was bred for. Shame of any one knowing he was a third. Ender didn't even have a choice to quit, but I suspect he might have left the fight school if he knew what the leaders knew.
Joined: Jun 2004 Posts: 3552 Location: NJ
Thanks: 1 Thanked: 5 times in 5 posts
Gender: Country:
Re: Ender's Character
Even Valentine manipulates and controls Ender, as we see her importance in keeping him focused on his training and talking him into not quitting.
Funny...the strongest leader in the story is probably Peter...the character we are supposed to hate the most. HE orchestrated his own take over of world politics. Ender wanted to be everybody's friend, and it seems a good leader cannot do that.
Maybe Ender is the ultimate humanitarian, as he carries around the egg sack of the dead queen looking to revive the life he destroyed. Maybe he was or will be a great moral leader, but was lead astray by those he trusted (Valentine, Rackham and Graff.
Valentine would not even let Ender return to Earth, for fear that Peter would continue to use Ender. But even with this, we see that Ender really has no control over his own desires or fate.
Mr. P.
The one thing of which I am positive is that there is much of which to be negative - Mr. P.
Once you perceive the irrevocable truth, you can no longer justify the irrational denial. - Mr. P.
The pain in hell has two sides. The kind you can touch with your hand; the kind you can feel in your heart...Scorsese's "Mean Streets"
I came to kick ass and chew Bubble Gum...and I am all out of Bubble Gum - They Live, Roddy Piper
Joined: Dec 2005 Posts: 374 Location: Ashland, NH
Thanks: 0 Thanked: 0 time in 0 post
Gender:
Re: Ender's Character
Quote:Even Valentine manipulates and controls Ender, as we see her importance in keeping him focused on his training and talking him into not quitting.
but she is manipulated into doing so by the battle school leaders...
Joined: Dec 2005 Posts: 374 Location: Ashland, NH
Thanks: 0 Thanked: 0 time in 0 post
Gender:
Re: Ender's Character
Quote:Funny...the strongest leader in the story is probably Peter...the character we are supposed to hate the most. HE orchestrated his own take over of world politics. Ender wanted to be everybody's friend, and it seems a good leader cannot do that.
i see this differently as well. ender might have wanted to be someone's friend, but his only friend is valentine. throughout the story, ender is isolated intentionally by the battle school leaders, but the actions of the leaders, and by the situations and resulting decisions ender finds himself making. i don't think ender wanted to be everybody's friend, his decisions certainly did not support this point of view, he was resigned to not having friends. this was the MO of the battle school leaders so that ender would not care about sending someone to their death.
Joined: Jun 2004 Posts: 3552 Location: NJ
Thanks: 1 Thanked: 5 times in 5 posts
Gender: Country:
Re: Ender's Character
Quote:i don't think ender wanted to be everybody's friend, his decisions certainly did not support this point of view
I see your point RivercOil, but what I am saying is that Ender desired friendship, not that he expected or saw it as possible. This probably stems from his desire to have Peter love him (which Peter does...as we saw in the scene where he thought Ender was sleeping). Ender desires a sense of normal, as we define it, human companionship, which he also realizes he will never have.
His interaction with Alai and {the girl in the battle school} and Mazer and Graff show his desire for friendship and not the militaristic chain of command which is all he has. He does have Valentine's love and friendship...but he wants more.
I feel he has bonded more with the Buggers than anyone else in the story...and they are all dead now...because of him.
Peter is the defining conflict in this story as far as Ender's own person is concerned, for Peter is his failings...his weakness...his inability...all reflected in a mirror of himself.
Mr. P.
The one thing of which I am positive is that there is much of which to be negative - Mr. P.
Once you perceive the irrevocable truth, you can no longer justify the irrational denial. - Mr. P.
The pain in hell has two sides. The kind you can touch with your hand; the kind you can feel in your heart...Scorsese's "Mean Streets"
I came to kick ass and chew Bubble Gum...and I am all out of Bubble Gum - They Live, Roddy Piper
Joined: Dec 2005 Posts: 374 Location: Ashland, NH
Thanks: 0 Thanked: 0 time in 0 post
Gender:
Re: Ender's Character
Yes, I definitely see Ender as wanting to have the normal relationships that he could not have. He realized certain actions he made would negatively effect the chances of those relationships, but often felt he didn't have much choice in pushing people away. I do not quite see Peter being a conflict, Peter seems like a non-issue to Ender. I do not recall Ender having extensive conflict except that he kept thinking that he was not like Peter, and he definitely was not. Every person Ender hurt was a conflict essentially forced upon him, possibly with the exception of the first conflict in which Ender decided to put a stop to being teased forever... perhaps ironically the defining moment that set the future stage as Ender would not have gone to battleschool if he couldn't fend for himself.
Joined: Jun 2010 Posts: 12
Thanks: 2 Thanked: 4 times in 3 posts
Gender: Country:
Re: Ender's Character
Is it not fair to say that Ender is the middle in a power struggle between Good ( Valentine) and Evil ( Peter). He may be a tool but in the purest sense of the word. Ender was a "tool" or means to an end. If you take the concepts of good and evil even further Ender would be, or have the capacity to be representative of the general public. The fact that he was not aware of the great plot only makes him more like the general public who was also fed the same propaganda. I have always chosen to believe that Ender did what anyone would do given the circumstances, as evidenced by his guilt he exemplified the basic needs of the human being, seeking acceptance, friendship, and comfort.
Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 5 guests
You cannot post new topics in this forum You cannot reply to topics in this forum You cannot edit your posts in this forum You cannot delete your posts in this forum You cannot post attachments in this forum
Love to talk about books but don't have time for our book discussion forums? For casual book talk join us on Facebook.
Support BookTalk.org
BookTalk.org is being upgraded to a totally new design. This upgrade is expensive. Any support would be VERY helpful! See who supports us.
Make a donation
PEOPLE PAYING FOR OUR UPGRADE:
• afv - $10 May
• LevV - $50 March
• Dexter - $10 March
• supernova38 - $25 March
• Oblivion - $20 March
• jheimlich - $20 February
• Robert Tulip - $50 February
• giselle - $50 January
Children here need worming
regularly, and I think I
need to buy more worming
tablets, so while my friends
sit on the beach, I have to
catch bush taxis up to the… more
The children have a long way
to walk to the nearest primary
school. At the moment they are
in temporary accommodation,
with volunteer teachers. There
is community land available,
a… more
The price of The 12th Disciple
has been updated to $3.99 for
Kindle readers. The book is
still available for free to
borrow for Amazon Prime
members. To be
competitive, and s… more
The 12th Disciple has been
reviewed by two different
people on Amazon. They
purchased the Kindle edition;
one in the US, one in the
UK. One review was
5-stars (US) and the oth… more
I'd like to say I've
been reading Harry Potter
since the day the world renown
series appeared on the
scene. Unfortunately,
the truth is I began reading
Harry Potter… more
Easter teaches many of us the
importance of redemption and
resurrection. Regardless of
what faith people follow, the
story of Jesus Christ has been
told in many languages in many
c… more
Our Book Talk will begin on
Wednesday, May 2nd. I look
forward to hearing about your
learning and classroom
experiences with Number Talks
as it all unfolds...
NONOPPOSITIONAL NONVIOLENCE
“The minute you conquer the
fear of death, at that moment
you are free. I submit to you
that if a man hasnÂ’t
discovered something that he
will die f… more
Yesterday, when I went to feed
Jeni the donkey, I noticed
swarms of bees entering
EbrimaÂ’s house through the
cracks in the door. We both
had a look, but he didnÂ’t
open his door… more
Whether you want to implement
number talks but are unsure of
how to begin or have
experience but want more
guidance in crafting
purposeful problems, this
dynamic multimedia resourc… more
Do you feel entitled? For
years I have listened to and,
in some instances, complained
that some people in America
feel entitled. For years I
have watched as these people
are portra… more
On Fat Tuesday and Ash
Wednesday of 2012, The 12th
Disciple was free to Kindle
users on both days. In all,
about 550 worldwide Kindle
users downloaded a copy of the
book.
‘Sacred Are the Brave’ a
collection of short stories
about the nonviolent
revolutions 1986-1989 is now
available in Kindle. Each of
the nine stories has
characters who are just
… more
The Weekend TrippersÂ’ is the
true story of Rfn Ted Taylor
and his part in the heroic
last stand in Calais May 1940.
The Weekend Trippers is based
on TedÂ’s diaries written at
the… more
Tell your friends when to meet you in the BookTalk.org Chat Room.
If you enjoy business bestsellers and would like to expand your business knowledge check out the quality book summaries offered by the world's leading book summary company.
BookTalk.org is a free book discussion group or online reading group or book club. We read and talk about both fiction and non-fiction books as a group. We host live author chats where booktalk members can interact with and interview authors. We give away free books to our members in book giveaway contests. Our booktalks are open to everybody who enjoys talking about books. Our book forums include book reviews, author interviews and book resources for readers and book lovers. Discussing books is our passion. We're a literature forum, or reading forum. Register a free book club account today! Suggest nonfiction and fiction books. Authors and publishers are welcome to advertise their books or ask for an author chat or author interview.