Does hell exist?

Penelope · Posted: Fri Sep 26, 2008 4:43 pm Post subject:

I don't say, disregard the Bible.....but I do say, treat it circumspectly.

Because it was written by mere men.....mere people.....and altered to fit their world views.....and understanding.....at the times and places when and where they lived.

We live now....in a time when communication is at its peak.....we can all talk to one another and share our ideas and experiences......never in history has this happened before....

I believe our souls are eternal.....not (perhaps) our personalities....

and if our souls are eternal...it is always 'now'.....

Heaven and Hell......are part of what we are experiencing.....now.

It is immediate.....dynamic....and it can be joyous!!!

As far as I can understand......the point where we diverge (with atheists).....is in our belief that the soul is eternal......if one believes that the soul is eternal, it alters ones whole concept.....

I don't know what God is.....I am not sure it is worth arguing about....

But if some people believe that when we die, that is the end of us....then, there is nothing I can do with words.....to convince them otherwise.....I just need to wait for them to begin to doubt.......and wonder.....

If, it is true....as I believe...that all our souls are eternal beings......then it will be understood.....eventually....just because it is a fundamental truth....and therefore a scientific fact...... Wink

Interbane · Posted: Fri Sep 26, 2008 5:13 pm Post subject:

Skepticism is a virtue Penelope. To hope for someone to believe in something that has no verisimillitude isn't virtuous.

GentleReader9 · Posted: Fri Sep 26, 2008 5:20 pm Post subject:

I voted no, Hell is a myth. I decided to answer the literal, geographical place in the afterlife dimension of the question since it seems there are a lot of very literal readers who participate in this site and I want to be clear that I don't believe Hell is a hot place under the ground where we go when we die if we are naughty.

When you say "Hell is a myth," however, you are showing that it does, in some sense, exist. Does fairness exist? Does the color blue exist? These are concepts that represent to us features of our experience in a way that is meaningful enough and comprehensible enough to enough people that they exist. Hell describes metaphorically the experience of suffering as a result of having done something we know or believve to be wrong or which caused others to suffer. That is a real phenomenon, a real fear, a real effect that many people experience, whether or not they are troubled by conscience.

There is one idea about Hell I have always found reassuring. It is said to be eternal. If it is eternal and you aren't there at this time already, you can rest assured you aren't going. There is no chance you can spend all eternity somewhere unless you are there for this part of eternity and have always been there, too, for that matter. Hard as my life has been at some points there are many more parts I have truly loved and enjoyed. So there is no way I could be suffering in an eternal fire of punishment even as we speak. (Just tell that to the Judge and see if it works. Let me know by ghostly haunting or by means of a Medium. And don't even think about trying any of that cutting a hole and spitting stuff they mention in the song!) Laughing

Penelope · Posted: Fri Sep 26, 2008 5:23 pm Post subject:

Intrabane:

My hope doesn't hurt anyone......My love doesn't hurt anyone.

Only hate....hurts......

Interbane · Posted: Fri Sep 26, 2008 5:43 pm Post subject:

Hope can lead to hurt. From hope in a belief to that belief. From that belief to an execution of that belief's contents. IE Monotheism, it has killed and tortured and raped more people on Earth than any other paradigm. Many people inside that belief hoped for non-believers to believe.

Be careful what you hope for.

Penelope · Posted: Fri Sep 26, 2008 5:56 pm Post subject:

Hope was all that was left in Pandora's Box.....

Pandora's Box was a Greek Myth.....Those Greeks were no dumbos!!

It is fear that we must beware of.......it is fear of one another that leads to the carnage....which you describe.....not hope...

I continue to hope....that we will all begin to understand the fear that is in us all......because with understanding of the human condition...comes love.

It is hard to love....what we fear....but that empathy...understanding...is our only hope. (No smiley face.....)

GentleReader9 · Posted: Fri Sep 26, 2008 5:57 pm Post subject:

Penelope:

Chris OConnor · Posted: Sat Sep 27, 2008 3:26 am Post subject:

GentleReader9 · Posted: Sat Sep 27, 2008 2:54 pm Post subject:

Interbane · Posted: Mon Sep 29, 2008 2:53 pm Post subject:

Penelope: "It is fear that we must beware of.......it is fear of one another that leads to the carnage....which you describe.....not hope..."

Almost anything can lead to carnage. Fear, jealousy, hate, even love. It depends on the circumstances. To say that only fear leads to carnage, and hope cannot lead to carnage is incorrect. You didn't say that verbatim, but I assume that's what you implied.

Penelope · Posted: Mon Sep 29, 2008 3:10 pm Post subject:

Intrabane Quote:

Interbane · Posted: Mon Sep 29, 2008 3:38 pm Post subject:

Your philosopy of fear is frail. ffff When I see a person with a million dollar car, I'm not afraid that I don't have it. That's ridiculous. I'm simply jealous that he has what I don't.

How about hoping that someone dies?

That sentence alone should make the point. It's similar to a weapon. It (hope / a gun) by itself isn't the danger, it's how it's used. If you use hope to motivate yourself to convince people to believe in a destructive dogma, it's like a robber using a gun to rob a bank, then killing the teller.

Penelope · Posted: Mon Sep 29, 2008 4:19 pm Post subject:

Interbane · Posted: Mon Sep 29, 2008 4:26 pm Post subject:

Penelope: "I think your lack of hope is destructive.

Whoa, don't jump to conclusions. I have a human's worth of hope. I also own a gun. You're missing my point. I hope everyone on earth lives a happy pain free life. I do NOT hope everyone on earth suffers. That would be "hope abuse." I also do NOT hope more people would believe in religion. That would also be "hope abuse." Well, in the recent years, Christianity isn't as bad as it was during the Dark ages. I still does damage however.

I enjoy other people's thoughts. I dislike ambiguity however.

Penelope · Posted: Mon Sep 29, 2008 4:46 pm Post subject:

Well, most 'thinking' people cobble together some kind of philosophy to live by during the course of their lives. And as we experience more and more (pleasure, pain, boredom) we alter our philosophy to make ourselves feel better.

So I suppose it is always going to be somewhat ambiguous.....especially if, like me, you don't adhere to a particular faith, and if you refuse to blindly believe the dogma. I just don't choose to blindly believe in Atheism, either.....but it's OK by me if others want to.

I mean, I have no fear of atheism now because I have talked to Frank, and Chris and the people on here. So I understand their reasons and I understand why they don't like my reasons....

Please note, before you attack.......I said reasons.....not evidence.

I have no evidence to offer.....but I have my reasons, which like many things.....which never the less exist.....are not demonstrable.

Wink


	FORUMS	ABOUT	BOOKS	VIDEOS	TRANSCRIPTS	LINKS	BLOGS	DONATE	CONTACT