Do Atheists forgive?

stahrwe · Thu May 26, 2011 9:39 am

Two questions;

Do Atheists forgive? &
If so, what is the basis for the forgiveness?

I am thinking here of something major like an Elizabeth Smart situation.
A deliberate act which causes great harm to you.

I don't intend to comment on responses, I am just curious.

President Camacho · Thu May 26, 2011 11:05 am

Do atheists forgive? Absolutely. That's a pretty silly and borderline offensively stupid question.

What is the basis for forgiveness?

Well, I think that has a lot to do with the person - their capacity for forgiveness, life experience, and how tightly they hold their values.

Someone could be genuinely forgiving having never been taught or having 'learned' to forgive. That person could be subject to a life where they were constantly placed in unforgiving situations which may have poisoned their ability to forgive. A person may, although constantly exposed to unforgiving people, forgive nonetheless because they know deep down it's right.

That's a really hard answer. You could have someone who is prone to forgive and has been taught to do so but has never needed forgiveness nor known anyone else that needed forgiving and then one day he is confronted with a situation where forgiveness could be given but because this act has never been exercised it seems absurd. Forgiveness loses itself in a way and becomes words and not action.

Or you could have a person who wants to forgive but is compelled by their peers to not forgive. They would have forgiven but have chosen to listen to those whom they assume are looking out for their best interests and the interests of the group. So you have outside forces working here as well.

I've seen animals forgive. You ever beat your dog for peeing on the carpet? I have smacked a puppy or two to house break them. The practice is extremely common and highly effective. My dog doesn't hold a grudge. It forgave me shortly after.

I guess it just all 'depends' on the creature.

Jozanny · Thu May 26, 2011 3:14 pm


	stahrwe wrote: Two questions; Do Atheists forgive? & If so, what is the basis for the forgiveness? I am thinking here of something major like an Elizabeth Smart situation. A deliberate act which causes great harm to you. I don't intend to comment on responses, I am just curious.

Human morality exists independently of any faith based standards, whether Judeo-Christian or polytheistic. We are a social primate, and therefore, whether Asiatic or Western, Kantian universals exist in our ethical behavior, and in fact, forgiveness, and how it is utilized has little to do with belief in a supernatural entity, but rather psychological health: The fact that I can't forgive a former supervisor for her crimes against me, old as they are, has cost me, but that Rwandans, for the sake of a nation state, are asked to forgive the nearly unforgivable crimes of genocide, is an extraordinary testament to resilience.

johnson1010 · Thu May 26, 2011 3:27 pm

I can't speak for atheists, but i forgive where it is warranted.

I don't think of forgiveness as a blanket necessity, or universal good. It might be, if the christian myth that "all humans are evil" had any truth to it. But not everybody you meet in the street has done anything that they are in need of any forgiveness. Not from me, or any super-pretend invisible daddy in the sky.

President Camacho · Thu May 26, 2011 3:49 pm

Forgiveness may not be a universal good but it sure does have a lot of benefits for those who can't seem to get things quite right.

I'm definitely one of those people. So forgiveness to me, if not a blanket good, is closer to it than from it.

Forgiveness is something we all probably have in common. Anyone who has any contact with another human being has most likely been forgiven and has forgiven.

johnson1010 · Thu May 26, 2011 3:57 pm

I am not one to hold grudges.

if a person steals from me, or brakes something, no big deal really.

screw up some project i'm working on? dent my car? sit on and break my guitar? I'll be pissed for a while, but in the end, its just stuff.

Murrill · Thu May 26, 2011 4:52 pm

I've come to believe that forgiveness means I cease to entertain all those negative thoughts about a person or event or circumstances that can consume my energy. I is when I stop playing around with fantasies of revenge & accept that I cannot change the past. I'm not saying I'm very good at it, I'm afraid....too much is spent in the name of closure...but it feels good when I get it right.

Interbane · Thu May 26, 2011 5:47 pm

Blaming someone in the first place is the problem. You can blame someone for doing you wrong, but if you see truly into their motives, there is nothing that is different from yourself. If the roles were reversed, it's almost always the case that you'd have done the same. So rather than blame someone now only to forgive them later, I do not blame them at all. I blame circumstance, or nature, or coincidence, as ambiguous natural forces. The agent is only human, with the same flaws I have. If their flaws manifest negatively towards me, that is their humanity shining through, which the religious twist into something arbitrarily magical and evil like "sin".

If a person crosses the "line" by doing something that I would never do myself, it is still their humanity shining through, since the concept embodies all the varieties of what we can do. So though the person may not be "to blame", they must definitely be punished in some way so they learn which action isn't acceptable. But the punishment should always fit the crime, and you should always picture the situation as if you're punishing yourself from another life. Do it with compassion and understanding.

stahrwe · Thu May 26, 2011 10:19 pm


	johnson1010 wrote: I am not one to hold grudges. if a person steals from me, or brakes something, no big deal really. screw up some project i'm working on? dent my car? sit on and break my guitar? I'll be pissed for a while, but in the end, its just stuff.

Forgive me but I want to clarify something. I am not talking about damaging property. I am talking about a guard at a gulag who tortured you, something along those lines.

Chuck Ludikee · Thu May 26, 2011 11:57 pm

I’m agnostic/weak atheist and forgiveness is just part of my daily existence, but it has no religious basis. To me it simply means I don’t hold wrongs against the person who did them. I do not wish a hurt back at them. People do the best they can do at any moment in time.

Murrill · Fri May 27, 2011 5:54 am

I guess the part that puzzles me is why anyone would think that atheists as a group might not forgive. I view forgiveness as one of the functions of getting along in the world. I can choose to hold grudges (and I admit that sometimes I do) or I can let go of them, which I consider to be forgiveness. I've never thought the religionists had a corner on the common courtesy/good mental health market.

Robert Tulip · Fri May 27, 2011 6:20 am

Atheists are far more forgiving than fundamentalist Christians, who believe people will burn in hell for eternity just for not endorsing dogma. Fundamentalists believe many things that are not true, and do not forgive anyone who points out their error.

In principle, atheism bases its values on evidence. There is considerable evidence that forgiveness is a superior ethical stance than revenge, in terms of the consequences of the alternative responses.

Frank 013 · Fri May 27, 2011 7:01 am

I see it this way, fundamentalist Christians do not feel the need to forgive everyone because their “forgiving” god has set up unforgiveable “sins”… they are simply following in his divine and righteous footsteps.

stahrwe · Fri May 27, 2011 7:10 am


	Murrill wrote: I guess the part that puzzles me is why anyone would think that atheists as a group might not forgive. I view forgiveness as one of the functions of getting along in the world. I can choose to hold grudges (and I admit that sometimes I do) or I can let go of them, which I consider to be forgiveness. I've never thought the religionists had a corner on the common courtesy/good mental health market.

What about the question implies that Atheists do or don't forgive? Don't be so defensive. It is a question about forgiveness and the basis for forgiveness. So far, I think the responses have been far too superficial and as usual one of them is about 8 standard deviations away from the topic. I am asking about deep hurts and forgiveness. Corrie Ten Boom forgiveness.
Gabby Giffords forgiveness. Could your forgive the Westboro Baptists for demonstrating at your loved one's funeral? This isn't a stick it to the atheists question.

stahrwe · Fri May 27, 2011 7:13 am


	Frank 013 wrote: I see it this way, fundamentalist Christians do not feel the need to forgive everyone because their “forgiving” god has set up unforgiveable “sins”… they are simply following in his divine and righteous footsteps.

Is this bait?
Christians are instucted to be forgiving.
There was only one unpardonable sin and despite Bart Centre's poor Bible scholarship it is no longer possible to commit.

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