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COSMOS - Episode 3

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ant

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COSMOS - Episode 3

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About halfway through COSMOS - EPISODE 3, a discussion is presented about Isaac Netwon’s publishing of his revolutionary physics of motion.

NDT (COSMOS) states the following:

“That pre-scientific world, that world ruled by fear, was poised on the edge of a revolution”

The claim that the world was ruled by fear prior to Newton is totally false.

COSMOS claim here is that prior to the “scientific revolution” the middle ages was dark compared to Newton’s ushering in of the enlightenment.

Trying to fit labels on to historical epochs is always problematic. It’s periodization often for the purpose of signifying one epoch as superior to another when the reality is that intellectual advancement is by and large a progression of thought.

The Italian Renaissance claim was to have been a clear break from the “dark ages.” However, an accurate reading of history reveals there were significant developments to natural philosophy (aks “science”) immediately after the fall of the “Great” Roman Empire, which we know as “the middle ages” or the pejorative label “dark ages.” Those developments would not have happened if “fear” ruled the minds of natural philosophers of the time.

One should not be fooled by rhetorical extravagances that have demonized the middle ages.

The claim by COSMOS is dumb. And once again COSMOS dumbs down and oversimplifies history in the process.

Thanks
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Brooks127
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Re: COSMOS - Episode 3

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I agree Ant. "Fear" is an ambiguous term as it has been applied. Dark Ages refers to the period following the Fall of Rome as a way to describe the lack of scholarly pursuits in the West while the East flourished in math and science, but the Monks in monasteries were doing more than recycling old texts during the Dark Ages. They were also experimenting with art and religious thought, which by the 13th century helped launch the arguments of faith vs. reason thus giving us the scientific mood that exist to present day.

Now if you want to watch a series that tells it like it was, then check out the classic series "The Day the Universe Changed" hosted by James Burke. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_day_th ... se_changed
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Re: COSMOS - Episode 3

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I will need to check you recommendation out, Brooks. It sounds very good.

I don't want to downplay COSMOS too much because I do appreciate the idea of introducing this current generation of ours to Science.
But I am sensitive to the historical mischaracterizations COSMOS doesn't seem to mind promoting.
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Re: COSMOS - Episode 3

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You didn't show the sentence to be wrong ant. It actually seems a bit arrogant on your part. How do you know the world wasn't ruled by fear? Weren't there a thousand ways a swift death could find anyone? Tyrannical kings and leaders? Mysterious and lethal unknowns?

Even though there was progress in those times, how much progress was there compared to after the enlightenment? I still see the picture of that time period being dark by contrast.

I think you'll searching hard for a molehill to turn into a mountain.
In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and has been widely regarded as a bad move.” - Douglas Adams
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Re: COSMOS - Episode 3

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Yes, the dark ages were ruled by fear. Scholars of the day spent most of their time huddled around fires, trembling in fear of God's capriciousness.

It wasn't until the "Enlightenment" and today's intellectual "Brights" that civilization progressed in leaps and bounds!!

Save the religious Dims from ignorance, oh great Brights!!

Thanks, Interbane. I owe you one.
Last edited by ant on Wed Apr 02, 2014 10:03 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: COSMOS - Episode 3

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Yes, the dark ages were ruled by fear. Scholars of the day spent most of their time huddled around fires, trembling in fear of God's capriciousness.

It wasn't until the "Enlightenment" and today's intellectual "Brights" that civilization progressed in leaps and bounds!!

Save the religious Dims from ignorance, oh great Brights!!
Great display of intellectual honesty ant. You captured what I meant exactly, that scholars were huddling in fear around fires, and that the culprit was religion.
In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and has been widely regarded as a bad move.” - Douglas Adams
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Re: COSMOS - Episode 3

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To clarify, are we saying that the Scientific Revolution did away with all fear, or the fear of being persecuted for scientific research?
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Re: COSMOS - Episode 3

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"Cosmos oversimplifies history in the process."

How can Cosmos, a show about science, not oversimplify history? If you devoted all 13 episodes to history, you would still be oversimplifying history.
Interbane wrote:Even though there was progress in those times, how much progress was there compared to after the enlightenment? I still see the picture of that time period being dark by contrast.
Yes, in contrast to the centuries before, the Enlightenment was a veritable explosion of knowledge. The changes that have taken place in the last few hundred years have been astounding and unprecedented in all of human history. It's amazing to ponder, I think, how relatively recently we were in the Middle Ages. Can you imagine living at a time when, for example, during the 1300s the Black Death wiped out a third of the population and no one had any idea why? When a simple toothache could kill you?

from Wikipedia:

"There were many ethno-medical beliefs of prevention methods for avoiding the Black Death. One of the most famous ideas was that by walking around with flowers in or around their nose people would be able to "ward off the stench and perhaps the evil that afflicted them. Since the people didn't have the knowledge to understand the plague, people believed the plague to be a punishment from God."

The Middle Ages was also a very complex and very violent time compared to the modern era. I base this on Barbara Tuchman's excellent book, A DISTANT MIRROR: THE CALAMITOUS 14TH CENTURY.

http://www.amazon.com/Distant-Mirror-Ca ... ra+tuchman
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Re: COSMOS - Episode 3

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Brooks wrote:To clarify, are we saying that the Scientific Revolution did away with all fear, or the fear of being persecuted for scientific research?
I don't think anyone here would believe something like that. My point was that the middle/dark ages were a barbarous time. There is no metaphorical switch that was flipped during the enlightenment, but by all appearances life began to get easier around that time. I'm sure some had to do with science, and I'm sure some had to do with cultural/political evolution. Either way, NDT's comment doesn't seem that far off to me. Ant is just grasping for something from the 'other team' to complain about.
In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and has been widely regarded as a bad move.” - Douglas Adams
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Re: COSMOS - Episode 3

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How can Cosmos, a show about science, not oversimplify history? If you devoted all 13 episodes to history, you would still be oversimplifying history.
Well, Geo, it's kind of like this: if a show that's supposed to be dedicated to science can deliver nothing more than oversimplified historical soundbites that mischaracterize and omit vital context, then maybe that SCIENCE show should stick to SCIENCE.
Now there's a brilliant thought!

Just the same, I'd argue against oversimplification of science by a show promoting religious values!
WOW! Imagine science subjected to oversimplification!
Imagine that!

:hmm: (This is some tough stuff to understand)
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